Correct way to laze targets for Jets

[ralfidude]

I am kind of sick and tired of the way people are lazing targets for our Jet assets.

I'm sorry but people are being lazy, and sloppy.

The thing to remember is that even though you might laze a target, and your squad mate reports the location, we assume that ur squadmate is reporting an alternative location since we dont know who ur squad mate is.

If i see coordinates from teh same person who lazed them, there is no confusion about its location. I will ignore all other coordinates in a conversation by anybody else.

All my copilots feel the same.



We cannot guess at where u are lazing, i am one of those pilots that drops the bombs from above cloud level where i dont even see the laze, but drop based on the Grid coordinate, just like most of the other pilots.


Please, for the love of god, give us a Grid coordinate of where your lazing, PLEASE.

Even if it you give us the grid without the keypad location, we will be happy.




And another thing, is to please whatch the map.... A constant spam of 'i got a laze' when on the map both jets are obviously back at main base to rearm is annoying, and stupid.

Stop slacking off.

Help us help you.



EDIT: It would be a fantastic idea for you to familiarize yourself with the name of the SL of the JET squad, as he is the spotter for the jets. Team chatting to him directly about an incoming laze prior to lazing will make sure that he sets up a attack marker on ur laze, granted that we are not being chased by enemy AIR, or following enemy air, or out of ammo. Be considerate.

[WilsonPL]

lazin target !
WWW.POWN.IT / 2028 -

[Nimise]

If only there was a way that laser target could appear on the map, that would really help because usually people expect the jet pilot to magically know where the target is .

[Zi8]

I agree that it sucks if they only send laser target with no info whatsoever.

But there is also easy solution for this: No info (grid/target type/lase) -> No CAS.
Suddenly they are interested to write them too (or not...)

[wookimonsta]

yeah, i agree with Zi8.
no grids no CAS, i have tried to be accomodating and find the laze that the person put up when im in the cobra. this means that i have to float around the area searching for it, and this is one of the lead causes of me getting shot down, so i have stopped doing it.

also, i have noticed people saying they have a laze (pressing t and clicking the laze button), but actually forgetting to put the laze down...

[Raufbold]

I seriously thinking about a shortcut for the teamchatmessage "PLZ GIVE COORDINATES OF LASE, OTHERWISE NO CAS FOR YOU" when flying ;D

[ralfidude]

I say the same thing to these people, but i really do want to help. i take out the enemy jets all the time and im stuck flying around aimlessly in the mig or F16. When the team is in trouble i want to be there to help, but these fools are just.... foolish!

[PlatinumA1]

I say the same thing to these people, but i really do want to help. i take out the enemy jets all the time and im stuck flying around aimlessly in the mig or F16. When the team is in trouble i want to be there to help, but these fools are just.... foolish!

Doesn't always have to be that way

When it comes down to it, fly low every now and then , spot your own targets..come back around and either

A) Gunrun with M61 or shoot missiles (Apc's, light armour vehicles, inf)
B) Dive bomb at 300-400 alt (takes practice to get hang of it)

Sure you can be a "pro" at flying in BF2 R but learning how to kill independent of lasers makes you even more deadly...

Use common sense as well. For instance on your map you see a squad leader spamming "LASING TARGETS" like hell, check where he is and think about where the enemy might be. Fly over the area at like 800 to see if you get a lock onto something (I don't do this , but just to give u an idea)


but honestly I ignore everyone on team-chat when I'm flying. Unless they are just constantly asking for assistance

[oxYris]

Doesn't always have to be that way

When it comes down to it, fly low every now and then , spot your own targets..come back around and either

A) Gunrun with M61 or shoot missiles (Apc's, light armour vehicles, inf)
B) Dive bomb at 300-400 alt (takes practice to get hang of it)

Sure you can be a "pro" at flying in BF2 R but learning how to kill independent of lasers makes you even more deadly...

Use common sense as well. For instance on your map you see a squad leader spamming "LASING TARGETS" like hell, check where he is and think about where the enemy might be. Fly over the area at like 800 to see if you get a lock onto something (I don't do this , but just to give u an idea)


but honestly I ignore everyone on team-chat when I'm flying. Unless they are just constantly asking for assistance

this would be a foolproof way to get yourself killed by enemy aa fairly quickly.

[Hitman.2.5]

If only there was a way that laser target could appear on the map, that would really help because usually people expect the jet pilot to magically know where the target is .

+1 Bump

I seriously thinking about a shortcut for the teamchatmessage "PLZ GIVE COORDINATES OF LASE, OTHERWISE NO CAS FOR YOU" when flying ;D

XD although a "Grid Co'ords please?" team chat short cut would be nice, when in a jet replace the bail out for "Grid Co'ords please?" maybe? it sure would be helpful

I see Platinum's idea for dive bombing and independently taking out targets, but isn't this mod about team work? plus flying low when you don't know about AA is rather risky and as in PR you only have 30 flares popping flares off every now and then means your going to have to land to re-arm them alot and when ur on the deck some one could of given you a lase and Grid co'ords.

[mat552]

Doesn't always have to be that way

When it comes down to it, fly low every now and then , spot your own targets..come back around and either

A) Gunrun with M61 or shoot missiles (Apc's, light armour vehicles, inf)
B) Dive bomb at 300-400 alt (takes practice to get hang of it)

Sure you can be a "pro" at flying in BF2 R but learning how to kill independent of lasers makes you even more deadly...

Use common sense as well. For instance on your map you see a squad leader spamming "LASING TARGETS" like hell, check where he is and think about where the enemy might be. Fly over the area at like 800 to see if you get a lock onto something (I don't do this , but just to give u an idea)


but honestly I ignore everyone on team-chat when I'm flying. Unless they are just constantly asking for assistance

I must express my disappointment at this perspective of flying.
When you fly low, you move into the targeting envelopes of not just AA but tanks, HMGs, ground based AT.

While the fragmentation radius on the AA missiles make them an appealing option for ground target attack, they are not used for that purpose (far as I know) in real life, and you risk leaving yourself defenseless in a ground attack jet, and in the MiG/F16, you invalidate your purpose as air superiority.

The reason the bombs have guidance is so that you no longer have to risk dropping short rounds or get too close to your targets, while they can be used in their vbf2 "divebomber" fashion, this is generally inaccurate and unwise.

If you have the time, or a spotter to check who is spamming "Lazing target!", this is often the only clue we as pilots get as to the possible location of the spot.

That last bit stings the most personally, I strive every time I get into that cockpit to provide reliable, professional, polite service and munitions on target, on time. I pay close attention to team chat, sit in TS (I would use mumble if I could), anything I can to be connected to the needs of the infantry on the ground who I am in the business of supporting.

My goal is to help reverse the image of pilots from vbf2 as being twitchy, teamkilling smacktards interested only in their scores and personal e-peen sizes to dedicated, trained, disciplined providers of support from the sky, fully and keenly aware that they are there solely to provide assistance to the infantry on the ground.

What is your goal when you strap into those wonderful flying machines?

[ralfidude]

exactly.


Bombs dropped at 300 altitude do not explode.

Iv tried this many times. When my SL could not laze a target i tried dive bombing it, but apparently the bombs just hit the ground without detonation.

The gun is no good against tanks, it just tickles them. Apcs might be another story, but in order to stay alive the whole round like i do, i dont try to go below cloud level unless i must. I even strafe extremely effectively from above 1300m without ever exposing myself.




The problem with the person spamming his laze target based on his location is that his laze could be anywhere around him in a 800meter radius....

Its not always an obvious target. Since i cant see where hes looking on the map with a header anymore, its all random. I try to think about if hes thinking of the flag were capping now .... or is he lazing something on the flag that we are defending.... who the fu*k knows....

I only have 2 bombs, im gonna use it on a sure target, as AA like to stick around the corners of the maps lately and take out jets incoming for a landing.

[ralfidude]

EDIT: Yes i pop a flare every second for every time im below cloud level till im back up above cloud level, AA can still kill you.

Trust me.

Its happened before.

A couple of times... its why i stick above cloud level all the time.

[[FC]Freddie]

Hi,

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm trying to learn as I go along.

I was under the (incorrect) impression that when I lazed a target as a SL that target was lit up to attack vehicles. Perhaps, like me many players don't know that the acquisition of a target also requires a grid reference also? (I expect your in no mood to be typing detailed instructions while flying)

Maybe you could be kind enough to post the exact procedure you would prefer when a SL wants you to attack a target? I know I would benefit greatly from that intel.

[burghUK]

Freddie;1097169']Hi,

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm trying to learn as I go along.

I was under the (incorrect) impression that when I lazed a target as a SL that target was lit up to attack vehicles. Perhaps, like me many players don't know that the acquisition of a target also requires a grid reference also? (I expect your in no mood to be typing detailed instructions while flying)

Maybe you could be kind enough to post the exact procedure you would prefer when a SL wants you to attack a target? I know I would benefit greatly from that intel.

ok i will since im also tired of this problem/lack of understanding.

as an SL you should follow the following steps for CAS.

Step 1. Find a target
Step 2. Tell the jet where the target is.(ie , Grid A4 keypad 6)
Step 3. When its on its approach make sure it has a fixed lase on it (a green square box) by left clicking with SOFLAM.
step 4. If the vehicle moves inform the pilot and tell him to standby informing him of the direction the vehicles moving.
step 5. If the target is destroyed tell the pilot.


- Praise be to mulhern.

[ralfidude]

When you laze a target, everybody hears the 'i got a laze' speech, and thats it. There are no markers placed on the map or anything. Only when the aircraft comes close to the thing you lazed do we see a box on the target, but this is about 700m away from target or so. Last thing you want to do is to do a fly by just to find ur target, giving the enemy time to get in a AA or report ur location, as you come around for another swoop down to take down the target.

In anycase, what you should do is the following;


If there is a commander on ur team, contact him and tell him you have a target ur about to laze that needs CAS. Tell ur commander the exact grid coordinate or tell him to look at ur attack marker u have placed on the lazed target. (Commander can see your move markers when he clicks on ur squad)

The commander will then contact the Squad Leader of the CAS/JET squad and tell him where it is. The plane will more than happily attack ur target, unless something else is going on.

MAKE SURE NOT TO RELAZE UR TARGET EVERY 10 SECONDS. A target that is lazed will have the laze stick for 30 seconds. If the plane cannot hit ur target in time, he will inform u to RELAZE.




IF there is no commander, make sure to note who the SL is of the CAS/JET squad. Lets say its me.

You should say the following-> RALFIDUDE, lazing target at C4kpd8

It would be smart to laze the target first, because we hear the 'i got a laze' from you. When that happens the first thing we do is check the team chat for grids to follow.

If u didnt check the name of our SL or u dont have time, at least say, LAZING AT C4 kpd8.

I dont mind u writing in capital letters and exclamation marks, it will make us see it if we arent payign attention at the time.

Have to remember, that ur bomb runs are not the only thing going on at the time for the jets. If we dont respond its for a legit reason, like AA, bingo ammo, enemy plane, or the fact that our SL is lazing a target for us that is of a bigger priority than urs.



If you are going to laze a AA pod, or AA vehicle, mention that. The bomber will then take extra precautions to save himself the trouble of getting locked on.



EDIT: if the target is moving, u really dont need to worry too much, as long as we know where he was when u first lazed him, it shouldnt be too much trouble, but it would be nice if u mentioned that hes moving, lets say east.

Oh another thing i forgot is to whatch the map after u laze ur target and to count how long its been.

If we come in on the attack approach after 25 seconds the target has been lazed, by the time the bomb drops, the laze will expire, and the bomb will not hit. Just notify that u are RELAZING, so we can turn around and come in again for the fresh laze.

[wookimonsta]

can we put a small manual into the little hints that come up at the beginning when you load a map? maybe people would start doing it if they read it there every now and again.

[Psyrus]

Freddie;1097169']Maybe you could be kind enough to post the exact procedure you would prefer when a SL wants you to attack a target? I know I would benefit greatly from that intel.

As a regular FAC (forward air controller) here are my steps to success:

Conditions:

• Prefer to have the pilots in TS, we're a pretty small community so this is generally the case, with the pilots that aren't dead in 5 mins that is.
• If not the case, I'd prefer a jet SL that is in mumble so I can talk directly to them. Wasting time typing out grid coordinates has got me killed on multiple occasions, especially when the armour or whatever knows I'm lasing it and thus when I stick my head up to renew a laze whilst typing that it's moved etc... it gets annoying
• As a last resort I will have someone leave my squad and invite the jet in, they then get the attack marker on the target plus my verbal queues when is a good time to bomb [this is my most preferred method, as changing squads can be as quick as 3 seconds]

===========

1. I place an attack marker on the target, this is to acquire the exact grid reference
2. I check my map to see that the CAS could respond in a timely manner (they're not refuelling or hitting another target)
3. I say "----------------------------CAS NEEDED grid location" (note the spaces [- => ' '], to bring it to the centre of the screen)
4. I will then laze, once the laze STICKS, I will use the "sending laser target" comm rose to let them know the lase is active
5. Not forgetting to renew the laze once every 20ish seconds
6. I will avoid calling them in if there is even a HINT of AA (although there will always be situations where you don't know it's there and the pilot gets the raw deal, tough luck)

============
Things I hate to see:

• Squad leaders who don't know how to laze, such as holding the mouse down (thus making it never stick) or just spamming "sending laser target" without indication of location or even target type.
• Overzealous and/or selfish CAS, which as Platinum has demonstrated, is all too prevalent these days. You will get shot down, I'd rather have CAS that kills 15-20 priority targets over the course of 1+ hour (you know, the ones that matter to completion of our objective) than 30+ random kills and then gets shot down unnecessarily (as I mentioned, even the best of pilots get shot down, sometimes it really is just bad circumstances).
• Asset whores. I don't care how good you are and if I've lased for you in the past, that doesn't mean that you are entitled to a plane/helicopter. Thank God we don't have those ridiculous asset-squad-naming rules down here on GSA, because it would drive me insane. First come first serve, let the whingers whinge and the mature prevail, learn to share kids.

I used to be a fervent pilot in PR, but as time progressed it just became more and more annoying to not have people effectively targetting for me, and thus I decided rather than whine about it over global chat or on forums, that I'd suck it up and be the guy who targets properly. My skills with all of the air assets have now waned significantly since my heydays, around the 0.6->0.7 times, after which I became almost exclusively a squad leader. It is through this experience that I know how to lase properly and effectively, because I know what both sides of the stick feel like, good and bad.

My final suggestion to anyone who squad leads or tries to use CAS, do everyone a favour and grab a few PR buds and jump in a Kashan Training server, get one guy to be MEC in a vehicle (moving) and the learning squad leader to first be in the plane. They then see what it is like to be the pilot, take them through various drops, and only once they have the hang of hitting targets, do they become the squad leader and learn to lase.

[mat552]

[quote=""'[FC"]Freddie;1097169']Hi,

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm trying to learn as I go along.

I was under the (incorrect) impression that when I lazed a target as a SL that target was lit up to attack vehicles. Perhaps, like me many players don't know that the acquisition of a target also requires a grid reference also? (I expect your in no mood to be typing detailed instructions while flying)

Maybe you could be kind enough to post the exact procedure you would prefer when a SL wants you to attack a target? I know I would benefit greatly from that intel.[/quote]


Absolutely!

Ideally, the following occurs in roughly the order I post:

1. You, as a Squad Leader (using your officer kit with your GTLD) are happily going about your business when you are made aware of a tank, swarm of infantry, or other threat to your continued existence.

2. Whip out your GTLD and acquire line of sight on your intended victim. Zoom in to the appropriate level and left click, when you see the green dot, that is how you know you're ready to call for your support.

3. Call out something to the effect of "Tank C5KP6 Lazed, on a side of a hill" in team chat. You can also follow that up with the comrose voice of "LAZING TARGET!"
It actually doesn't really matter what you say, but as a pilot, I'm looking for three things when my assistance is requested.
A) What is the threat? Do I need to come in high angle, flares flying every which way, in and out as quick as I possibly can to avoid AA? Or can I come in and mozy around above the firing arcs of the target, loitering and spraying rockets and guns around, clearing out enemies nearby?

B) This is most important, WHERE is the target? On maps with jets, there are a lot of places that large targets like to hang out. In mountains, small villages, more mountains, coal mines, bunker complexes, the list goes on. If you're calling a laze, you probably need that service quickly. I will provide it as fast as I possibly can, but if the team is all spread out, it becomes orders of magnitude harder to find who wants what where in time.

The easiest way to transmit the location of your target is using the handy grids provided to you by the game. Simply place your attack order on your laze then look at your map (fully zoomed out) to see where the target is, then add that to your request.

C) Any other information you think will be useful on the attack run, is the target easier to hit from north to south? Is it sitting on the side of a hill? Are their friendlies close enough that I need to really dial in my accuracy? I trust the judgment of you as the SL to tell me what I need to know to help you out.

4. Most pilots will respond with an "Affirmative a vehicle is on the way" which the devs helpfully provided. At this point, make sure to keep the target data ACCURATE. If AA suddenly shows up, tell us please? If the target starts moving, just make sure the laze stays accurate, there aren't many ground vehicles that can move so fast that we get there to discover nothing, but feel free to tell us the target is moving, it does make our job easier.

5. Sit back and watch the mayhem unfold.

Is that clear enough or can I expound somehow?

EDIT:
[quote="Psyrus""]
[*]I say "----------------------------CAS NEEDED grid location" (note the spaces [- => ' '], to bring it to the centre of the screen)
[/quote]

Oh man oh man oh man this always infuriates me when I see it. I can read just fine without your text suddenly appearing in the center of my hud, obscuring my altitude or speed for a few seconds.

[ralfidude]

A nice last touch would be to inform if the target is hit.

Pilots like to know they were successful.

If it was a miss for any reason, we can try again.


This Business is like a relationship, communication is key!!