Flying nades!

phwanc · Post by **phwanc** » 2006-06-02 15:06

OK, so it takes you like 10 seconds to toss a nade, but, while playing assault class, you can place 2 ammo boxes by your side and use your launcher to bombard a checkpoint from a distance continuously.... any plans on looking into this?

Thanks!
-Frank

BTW, i love spamming nades at a distance, just think its not fair.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-02 15:13

The nade tossing rate is going to be reduced in build 0.31 to about 4 or 5 seconds, and the amount of time it's held in the hand is being reduced by about 70%. As for the ammo bag issue, well there's nothing official on that, but personally I think ammo bags should be none respawnable and should have to be obtained from supply crates, therefore the assault class is only really carrying about three extra ammunition loadouts before he has to refuel. That's more than enough.

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-06-02 15:50

you still got some small scale artillery in 3 bags though.
Personally the ammo bags should just replenish bullets, and if possible have an alternative bag that replenishes grenades, thrown and fired (of course thats assuming kit selection can be played around with).

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-02 15:57

Not possible apparently, ammo is ammo regardless of what type it is. If this isn't true then it'd be possible to implement my magazine sharing idea found here: http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6563& where basically all classes provided their own ammo for each other and the assault class just carried more ammo than usual. For now we just have to stick with the bags. I think if they're nerfed a little more to carry less ammo or the assaultman just carries two with him, that'll solve the problem, but either way I think they should be single use and he must refuel in a supply drop. Now the supply drops are realistically placed it'll be VITAL for a squad to secure their landing to get their assaultmen stocked up before their next insertion. Right now you go assault and you've got ammo for life, and it's not like that in real life. Every bullet should count, you shouldn't be able to reload knowing there'll be an ammo bag at your feet if you just ask.

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-06-02 16:19

Maybe this could be coded:
All classes have a ammo-bag but only soldiers of the same class and on the same faction could pick those ammo-bags up.
Rest is the same. Granades and other "big stuff" only from crates/cars. Ammo given away is substracted from your account...

for me a good compromise with much less coding effort (if this could be done).

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-02 17:19

You're not reading my posts. The BF2 engine treats all ammo exactly the same. It does not know the difference between M16 ammo, Support Class ammo, grenades, whatever. To the engine, it's all ammo, or at least that's what I've been told. As that link up there that I posted shows, I already came up with the best solution to the ammo problem, but due to engine limitations it's not going to be possible.

The only fix is to continue use of magic ammo bags, and the best we can do about fixing that is to stop them from appearing from thin air. Leave that to the supply crates that can restock them.

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-06-02 20:06

I understand the problem.
I'm not a coder and have no clue what is possible in BF2 engine. But maybe you can "tag" an object, so only a specific class can pick it up.
So, it is no need to treat the ammo specific when you can tag the bag or clip like this.

A really simplified example:
medic throws "ammo object" -> ammo clip -1 -> object tag is "medic" -> only medic can pick this object up -> ammo clip +1

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-06-02 20:34

but the troops don't really have magic ammo packs. if you drop 3 i think then you can't drop more till they are used up somehow

so drop 3 and your guys die and spawn at another flag and you can't drop ammo to keep replenishing yourself!

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-02 20:53

You can have 3 max and they constantly respawn. If you drop it, you'll have a fresh one ready to use, it just limits you to having three on the ground at a time. Ammo bags do deplete, but it's not like it matters because they will respawn quickly. The idea would be to have the assault class having three only and ammo bags would have a greater 'ammo value' (otherwise ammo bags would refuel ammo bags, which would kinda be a problem). The only way to get more would be to sit in a car and wait for them to 'refuel' or to sit by a supply crate for a while, or of course die and wait 30+ seconds for your next three bags.

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-06-03 11:48

Malik wrote:You can have 3 max and they constantly respawn. If you drop it, you'll have a fresh one ready to use, it just limits you to having three on the ground at a time. Ammo bags do deplete, but it's not like it matters because they will respawn quickly. The idea would be to have the assault class having three only and ammo bags would have a greater 'ammo value' (otherwise ammo bags would refuel ammo bags, which would kinda be a problem). The only way to get more would be to sit in a car and wait for them to 'refuel' or to sit by a supply crate for a while, or of course die and wait 30+ seconds for your next three bags.

Ammo bags don't respawn on their own, they simply can be resupplied by other ammo bags. Not sire how many ammoo bags to an ammo bag (lol) but they do not respawn on their own.

As for your suggestion further up, the sharing thing would jsut be a pain in the arse, and as you say once again restrcted by th engine (suprise, suprise).
It would probably just be easier to remove ammo bags, and simply give troops more ammo to lug around. Or at least given the option ot caryy more ammo, oh how I so want kit loadouts lol

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-06-03 12:05

yeah, give up something in your kit to carry more ammo or nades. Like with Joint Ops and maybe increase/decrease standard movement speed. but different core engine so can't be changed in this case probably

eddie · Post by **eddie** » 2006-06-03 12:28

, MrD are you telepathic?! No I don't believe in that BS either....

I so want to EA bash!
And the 3 ammo bags max is a great idea, just don't make it too damn easy to get them back....

phwanc · Post by **phwanc** » 2006-06-03 19:06

actually what my issue is, is that the nade launcher can shoot at a relatively fast rate compared to that of chucking one by hand.... no problem with the ammo bags here.

Thanks!
-Frank

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-03 19:50

It does seem odd how it takes the guy 8 seconds to find a damn grenade on his body (surely you'd remember when you kept them?) and yet he always has the M203 nades at the ready, the only delay there is loading it up.

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-06-04 21:22

Malik wrote:It does seem odd how it takes the guy 8 seconds to find a damn grenade on his body (surely you'd remember when you kept them?) and yet he always has the M203 nades at the ready, the only delay there is loading it up.

AFAIK the Devs have said they're decreasing the time from 8 seconds to seconds (in 0.31 or .4 I'm not sure). GL's might still be faster after that, but they have smaller splash damage anyway.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-04 21:37

Either way, the time it takes the guy to get a GL 'nade from his pack is instant, yet it takes several seconds to find a hand grenade. They're roughly the same size, surely they should take the same time? Maybe the GL reload animation should be adjusted to have a similar 'blank period' between firing/throwing and reloading/preparing a new grenade. The guy fires, he waits a few seconds to 'get a new grenade' (no animation) then after that short period, however long it is to get a hand grenade out, the guy starts loading his grenade launcher. Forget the splash damage decrease, people forget that grenade launchers are one hit kills and some people are capable of actually aiming at people like you're intended to. I always manage to rack up kills with the grenade launcher from ranges through experience, but there are still guys out there who use the grenade launcher to send a mini artillery barrage on a point through sheer luck and persistence. They fire, see they missed, adjust accordingly and fire again. The magic ammo bags refuelling ammo bags means they always have a constant supply.

Flying nades!

Flying nades!

Um, wrong...