More real flight characteristics of littlebird??

[bluehawk112]

Hi Guys,
I wanted to start a new topic here.
The topic is: flightphysics of the littlebird (or in general of all helicopters)
I was wondering, if it´s possible to implement improvements concerning the following flight

characterisics of a helicopter :

1.)if incrasing the pitch (raising collective lever) on the ground for take off or during any

(very) slow speed flying phase (f.e. close to ground, hovering), the airframe should start to

rotate against direction of rotorblade-circular direction. If you don´t push opposite rudder

pedal (i.o.to counteract this impulse), you start to rotate around your own vertical axis.

2.) if you decrease pitch (lowering collective lever) during low speed (f.e. close to ground for

landing), vice versa effect will happen (rotation of airframe starts in same direction like

rotorblade-circular direction-->if you don´t counteract with pedal)

3)if you decrease pitch (lowering collective lever) very rapidly and intensively during fast

speed, the nose of the helicopter will suddenly pitch up (but I think, this effect is already

realized with flight characteristics of uh1n helicopter and supercobra, am I right?). Same vice

versa. Pulling collective lever will give a little nose down - effect.

4.) if you decrease pitch (lowering collective lever) very rapidly and intensively during having

no forward speed, the rotorblades can come in their own downwash during the following vertical

descent. Trying to break the descent in this situation is not possible by applying more pull on

the collective lever but only by pushing nose a little bit down to get forward movement to escape

the vertical downwash airstream.

4.) If you want to land on a runway with slow forward speed and you are close to the ground, your

airframe should be drifting sidewards (even without any crosswind). Reason is the tailrotor,which

has the same effect like actual crosswind would have on your airframe (=side drift). That´s why

you should land with a little bit of bank (one side touches down first) in order to keep your

nose aligned with the desired landing direction (f.e. centerline of a runway) and in order to

counteract the side drift.

I am not a real helicopter-pilot, but I have some friends that are real heli-pilots and they

invited me sometimes to fly in a real heli-simulator. On these occasions, they explained to me

the funny behaviour of a helicopter during certain phases of flight
-especially, when close to the ground.
If someone of the developers of PR was willing to change some flightphysics of the littlebird,

I could try to gather more exact information about speed and altitude ranges where these

phenomenons appear or which angular speeds can occur not counteracting any rotations.
Of course, I am not sure, if there could be some more special issues to consider when steering a

helicopter, but having flown a couple of times in the real simulator, I think, I listed the most

important "add ons" for more realistic flight characteristics.
Any real pilots here who can help me out here and who might also want to convince our great

developers of PR to improve reality-feeling of helicopterflying?

[gaurd502]

I'm not sure if they can. I think the engine is to limited to allow this.

[HAAN4]

Good luch ;.....

[mat552]

As I recall, the engine doesn't really handle wind or any of the physics necessary to implement truly realistic choppers, same reason wind can't be added to push sniper rifle rounds around.

The handling on the Combined Arms choppers are a little different, perhaps more realistic, but what do I know?

[R5ZOR]

Its as realistic as the DEVs can get it at the momment without making it incredibly difficult.. i think.

[Rudd]

Bluehawk, try combined arms combinedarms.myfreeforum.org • Index page

I dont think they have changed the LB yet, but have a fly around in some of the modified aircraft, and see if they conform to your simulation experiences. I'd be interested to know if they do or not.

[Zimmer]

R5zors fact is the handling of helis has not been touched in ages. Hopefully we will see the Combined Arms handling in 0.9 that from what i have understood is alot better.

[Rudd]

the current incarnation of the chopper handling was brought in .5 or .6 wasn't it?

[Smegburt_funkledink]

the current incarnation of the chopper handling was brought in .5 or .6 wasn't it?

It hasn't changed since then to my reconing. I wouldn't know if it will have been any earlier than that though.

[barrypotter]

Interesting stuff Bluehawk, I don't think that could be down within the constraints of the game, not easily anyway. Plus you would really need someone with experience in flight modeling. Most of the behaviour your talking about is in PC simulations like X-plane, Flightgear and DCS Blackshark though.

Hehe there are enough accidents already, imagine the chaos if you had Helicopters like those from the above sims.

[j45h89]

In terms of realism vs playability i don't think it is a good idea. I know exactly what you are talking about but for the vast majority of people it would be not worth the extra effort. After-all this is not a flight simulator. Plus as mentioned i don't think the bf2 does crosswind etc.

I actually made a thread about the heli physics. Take a look and see what you think. I tried to make a reasonable compromise between playability and realism.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-v0-86-vehicles/64594-mi-8-huey-bh-lynx-flight-handling.html

[bluehawk112]

Because I found the following thread (here: concerning Heli Rotor Collision meshes),
published by Rhino » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:56 pm in the following forum: combinedarms.myfreeforum.org • Index page

"Hey guys, for PR we are thinking of adding collision meshes onto the rotors of helicopters, but we are thinking it would be a good idea for you guys to test it out the concept for us
I'm willing on making the cols etc for you guys if you are willing to put it on the helis and test it."

I do have a lot of hope, that Rhino might be able to change other flight physics as I described before. I think, the nose-up movement that I described when rapidly decreasing collective pitch during high forward speed is already implemented.
For me, that´s an evidence, that more realistic heli-steering effects could be implemented in the future.
Furthermore, I think, that flying will not be too complicated for the experienced BF2 pilots.
It will get more interesting. For the experienced guys, flying itself is no challenge any more.
They will be happy to get more (realistic) challenges, I am sure.
Thanks guys for picking up my topic, I am a real enthusiastic PR(+SP)-heli driver.
Cheers
bluehawk112

PS: Dr2BRudd:Sorry, I haven´t tested modified airframes yet, didn´t know how to do this

[Maverick]

there is no such thing as experienced pilot in VBF2, okay, maybe yes, but they'll need alot of practice, and god hope that they go to a training server before they pop into a pub server, starting to get a little tired of new people that think they're bad, and they waste assets and I have to kick them, but Combined Arms' handling, you can't make it too easy for the pilots or else ittl get boring I believe. but I do agree, that the helicopter handling and the physics isn't realistic unfortunately. It can get better with Combined Arms' implementation.

[Calhoun]

there is no such thing as experienced pilot in VBF2, okay, maybe yes, but they'll need alot of practice, and god hope that they go to a training server before they pop into a pub server

I don't know what you mean. I came over from vanilla and never went into training, and flew transport helicopters without wrecking them or flying them into any place that was incredibly stupid, on a public server.

[Maverick]

Well, that's cause you took your time, and was actually thinking mate. I respect you already =)

[Alex6714]

Ca handling is about as good as it's going to get. I have read a book on helis and have a few simulators. Only the apache, cobra and huey are almost finished though. I did implement rotor torque but it just got too annoying with bf2 as it's just more simple in general. When I get back from camp expect some improvments and some more helis finished in CA.

[Qaiex]

The LB is on the way out anyway IIRC. Being replaced by the kiowa as soon as we get a model for it.

[TheLean]

It would be interesting if PR could get more similar handling as the old bf1 mod desert combat had. Flying was very different but it had realisistic basic controls I was told by a helicopter pilot.

[bluehawk112]

The LB is on the way out anyway IIRC. Being replaced by the kiowa as soon as we get a model for it.

What do you mean with that, please? Are you talking about Combined Arms- or about BF2 PR? Is there any chance-as far as you know-of any implementation of more realistic takeoff/landing/hovering behaviour as I described? I mean, we are talking about "Project REALITY", right?!! Someone said, this is not a flightsimulator. I disagree! Flying the helicopters in PR is already very close to real flightsimulation-but it still can be improved! If you don´t want flying close to reality, don´t play the mod PR. Just play vanilla BF2.
Of course, there is no need to waste computer resources on displaying any working flightinstruments, because flying in BF2 PR is flying in visual flight conditions only- but flight physics are much, much more important (in my point of view).
If my statement was not right, we could give the flightphysics of a flying saucer to the helicopters. Who else is of my opinion? I need some results of this discussion, pleeeease

[camgirl_17]

I think it should be a compromise between reality and playability, like every aspect of PR is now.