Sniper/Spotter idea, ''read carefully'' + markers

[arjan]

I dont like markers, its just verry unrealistic and their could be made a more realistic way of knowing the distance, giving the officers GLTD's back with a range on them, like back in 0.6/7, markers on the map should stay, but in first person they should be removed, anyone agrees?

I also hate to see snipers operate on their own, mostly without spotter.
and if he is with a spotter, the spotter doesnt really do his job like in real life like calculating wind and bulletdrop etc, now i know spotter kits has been suggested but not in this manner, let me explain;

So i got the following idea for a more realistic feeling snipeing experience;
First off lets discuss the kit loadouts:

Sniper kit (2x);
1# Knife
2# Pistol
3# Rifle undeployed
4# Rifle deployed
5# smoke (signal)
6# smoke (colored)
7# Binoculars
8# Field dressings

Spotter kit (2x);
1# Knife
2# Pistol
3# Rifle - iron
4# Smoke (signal)
5# Grappling hook
6# Rangefinder
7# Soflam
8# Field dressing

Sniper now has deployed mode in its loadout, for quiker deviation settlement, sniper wont have the GLTD that has been given to the spotter, so the sniper could have deployed mode, and the spotter could do the additional lasing.
The spotter has nothing fancy except for the ''Rangefinder'', or what is it.

This is the important part;
A sniper will not be able to take verry accurate shots without a spotter and his rangefinder, what the spotter will be able to do is scope in on the rangefinder, and tell him how many bars he has to adjust.

example,



lets say we give the sniper bullit drop after 200 meters, just saying something random,
And the target is 430 meters away, the spotter tell his sniper; '' 2nd bar/dot and a quarter'' meaning abit less than exactly between 2 dots, this could also be with bars or stripes instead of dots.
So now we have a fully functional spotter.
Another thing with this is, to make the sniper only requestable in the squad if the squadleader or a squadmembers has a spotter kit, *if possible, im thinking not* would solve the random guys coming in youre squad just to grab a rifle and make their own.



Reason not to lock it; there where suggestions about spotters and snipers and rangefinders, but nothing like this makeing both kits only usefull when operating together and makeing them dependent on eachother

[Smegburt_funkledink]

I'm not sure if a system like that will work well across the board. I believe that different players using different aspect ratios on their monitors will have differing results with those sights.

Isn't it best for the scopes to look like they do IRL and just give the 'spotter' back his range finder like you've suggested. Then the sniper will make his own adjustment based on the range given to him.

[arjan]

im not sure that counts for scopes, i think it counted for grenadiers.
and otherwise the spotter would be able to tell the distance, and the sniper could also figure it out with some skill.

With skill i mean; having shot the rifles in PR before and knowing abit how to hit a target alone with only being told the distance, wich then still requires a spotter to see the distance.

[wookimonsta]

interesting suggestion, but you have to keep in mind that we only have 32 players per side.

i think that having 2 people off sniping is already bad enough since the majority of snipers aren't that useful. having 4 is an even bigger drain.

also keep in mind that the snipers main job is not just to engage, but to give intel.

also, the distances at which snipers engage targets in game are much smaller than they would in real life (at least for me).

also, the sniper in game is perhaps different from a sniper in real life.
it seems to me to be more like the police sniper who engages targets at closer ranges than the army sniper who can engage targets at 2 km.

[arjan]

yes, the spottes has been giving the GLTD also, so he can do laseing for the commander and such.
makeing him more in the spot of being in contact with the commander.

Also for distance yeah, maps are smaller.
So i think its a nice thing to add more bullit drop, makeing the map feel larger for a sniper, or makeing it feel that hes shooting further.

as for the players, doesnt matter.
most sniper squads operate with 4 guys anyway right? , 2 snipers 2 spotters. (mostly an officer or specialist)
The spotters also have next to the role of assisting the sniper the role of lasing targets, wich is needed.

they wont be missed that much i think.


Edit;
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=h ... start%3D72

I think such a laser rangefinder would do fine, basicly the soflam could be reskinned into black?
but scoping in would look different from a soflam

[mat552]

arjan from some of your previous posts, I would actually have pegged you as someone who wanted the use of snipers to diminish, my apologies for preconceived notions.
(in specific: )

dont snipe, get medic or rifleman and youll help youre team much better

Now, the thing about snipers currently is that one man can do the work of two, not necessarily realistic, but it does free up two slots that would be used for spotters to say..come play medic or rifleman in your squad. It's a gameplay lubricant, just to help things smoothly along. If you want to argue that realism point, then I'll argue that the engine cannot render terrain at the distances that the sniper rifles would begin to require ballistic computations. 200m (your hypothetical range) is standard assault rifle territory, which would make the purpose built precision rifle worse than the standard infantry rifle for most factions.

Another thing this reminds me of is the Special Forces kit, which also had a pistol, carbine, grappling hook, soflam (iirc when he had the soflam, the sniper didn't). He did have a few more falldowngoboom items in his inventory, but more often than not, people were using them as spotters for snipers. (I bet this last point will be argued, but for every one time I saw or heard about some 31337 0P3R470R running around blowing things and himself up, there were two or three times I could see two dots in the hills, both in the same squad if I looked, one Sniper, one Special Forces. The spotter SpecOps were just much more quiet and easier to miss when they did their job right)

[Cheditor]

I always like ideas that make snipers look better in the eyes of the community but this doesnt fit well for me tbh. Purely because you are trying to take away the ability to mark positions on players screens. It saves you so much time instead of describing the position, and time saves lives,

[0blivi0us]

I love this idea, but the weapon of choice for the spotter i do not.
If you want to incourage people teaming up for sniping. the Spotter should get an iron-sight weapon.
IRL, the spotter provides short range cover for the sniper when they are moving. A scope will encourage him to take on some enemies down range as well.

But i love the idea. I'm surprised why something like this hasn't been implemented yet. This will be great for clans who take a game serious. (I.E clans that work with good communication making the sniper and spotter important)

[Gore]

This sounds very sophisticated, if it's possible it could be very interesting to try. Though the spotter shouldn't be given the choice of scoped/unscoped rifles because he'll have a grappling hook.

[arjan]

You guys are right about the scopes, i got that idea out of the suggestion.
Thats actualy pretty obvious not giving him a scope.

@ matt;
im not against them, but i though that guy was a noob @ sniping so i said, better get another kit if you die that much with it.

About the 200 meters, that was not a suggestion, if you read it carefully i said something about just saying something random.
altough you must keep in mind maps arent as big as they are IRL so you have to scale stuff done right?

and if you have bullit drop for the sniper around 400 meters or less youll have better cooperation with youre spotter meaning even snipers have to teamplay with there spotter instead of laying somewhere and pop everything they see.

@ Cheditor,
well you could still open op youre map and see where the SL has his marker.
a marker is really something you can exchange for youre voice. just like real life you dont have markers popping up out of nowhere, like youre SL says; ''i got infantry on the marker'' it should be that squadmembers and squadleader tell eachother where theyve seen people or equipment

[Cheditor]

Yes but in real life people can read emotion through your voice easily and you can easily indicate with gestures. For me these markers represent what you can do in real life but cant do ingame.

[burghUK]

Most maps view distances are less than 600 which is what the snipers zeroed at. Making this pretty much a waste of time.

[wookimonsta]

i also play with a squad as a sniper quite a bit.its useful on large open maps.

[AnimalMother.]

its definitely a well thought out suggestion on a topic that has been brought up alot, so well done on finding a new idea for it.



i used to hate snipers with a passion, i never use to snipe and my only experience was the bloke in my squad who got it and then failed horribly.

however of recent i have been doing more SL for CAS squads and as a preference i take the sniper kit, so i have my soflam for lasing the hardware and the marker for large infantry formations. With the rifle as the back up in case theres that one bloke on the AA. I have managed to become pretty efficent at this role (ok, i think i have)

i think that the suggestion is good for a sniper team that has the intention of primarily engaging infantry, however for a sniper that is primarily looking for targets and recon with the occasional shot its a bit inconveniant.

dunno mixed reactions and thoughts on this, perhaps it could be map specific, so if theres air assests a spotter isn't needed but on other maps when its more likely for a sniper to be engaging infantry often then the spotter is required.

[arjan]

well you could get the spotter kit, and laze right?

[AnimalMother.]

well you could get the spotter kit, and laze right?

well if that was the case then i'd just get an officers kit

[Anderson29]

About the 200 meters, that was not a suggestion, if you read it carefully i said something about just saying something random.
altough you must keep in mind maps arent as big as they are IRL so you have to scale stuff done right?

i agree with you for having things scaled down for the game because of limitation of the engine...but once you scale 1 thing down you have to do it for everything....and then where does it end.....but i would like to see this implemented...and tested.....

[arjan]

well if that was the case then i'd just get an officers kit

Haha, true ;P
What i ment was; the spotter could do the lasing but primairly assisting the sniper.
The sniper will handle the shots, like in real life.

@ anderson; exactly, just keep in mind alot of things are allready scaled down take the jets for example or the maps.

[LeadMagnet]

You're basically asking for an officers kits with a grapple.... That would be highly abused and overpowered I'd say since officer kits are already prime target for regular infantry due to the pistol and bandage count. If you want an effective 2 man sniper team (in game) just choose either an officer kit or an AR kit.

[arjan]

no im not, it goes abit further than that..

and i dont want to see a officer with a grapple, he would be sitting in the distance anyway, right?

see, he would get the rangefinder, so a sniper would be less effective while going on his own.
the idea is more about a system with a working rangefinder and makeing a sniper team work more with eachother than just point and click, and simulating a sniper working together with a buddie to ''calculate'' bullit drop.

and how realistic is a SAW gunner next to a sniper in a sniper team