Civillians to kill or not to kill?

[snooggums]

Feel free not to trust me:

Originally Posted by hiberNative View Post
like the OP, i want a developer's answer on this. i don't trust anyone else. just copy this check list and put an x in every kit that gives you a 1 minute cooldown after pulling it out in 0.86.

cellphone [ ]
resuscitate [?]
unarmed [ ]
first aid kit [X]
stone [ ]
epipen [?]
binoculars [ ]
grappling hook [ ]

R-DEVS ONLY.
i'm tired of know it all players that all say different stuff.

Logically the epipen and resuscitate should count but it is not clearly stated that I can find. The ROE is stated to be Collaborators who have their medic bag out, who are in or just got out of a vehicle and anyone who just picked up a civi kit are able to be killed without punishment for up to 1 minute after the action. They can also be killed while on a ladder/grapple because it counts as a vehicle (but isn't supposed to have the 1 minute delay after like a car or truck would have).

Phone/unarmed/stone/binocs/holding grapple hook do not cause the Collaborator to be a valid target for ROE.

[TheOldBreed]

i'm gunna suggest this in a second in my own suggestion thread, but haha, although however controversial, in a humvee, BLUFOR should carry 'drop weapons' (google it). allthough it will be pretty much useless in the game, when you shoot a civilian by mistake (or not for that fact), place a drop weapon on his body. that way, everyone's happy....apart from the civilian and his family.

[TheOldBreed]

Also, ROE can apply.
in Iraq and Afghanistan, mainly Iraq, snipers were cleared to hit unarmed (being that they did not have a firearm visible on them) iraqis that were suspected to be forward observers for things such as mortars.
e.g. if a civilian has binos on them or a phone, take them the f*ck out

[Spec]

So just because some people use weapons to drop them near a murdered civilian IRL it should be allowed in game? It's illegal either way.

[Trooper909]

you found some one playing as a civvi? wow

[blackfish]

So just because some people use weapons to drop them near a murdered civilian IRL it should be allowed in game? It's illegal either way.

[Nox.]

The funny thing is I keep reading on the server "STOP KILLING CIVILIANS!", written by OPFOR aka Insurgents. If every civilians death brings universal caliphat closer to existence and takes away intel points from the infidels - then why moan about it?

[Spec]

Because the black screen of awesomeness is boring and people want to have fun?

[wookimonsta]

one could always go the other way, instead of more punishment, less. on both sides.

if a collaborator gets killed, he only get 60 secs of spawn time and the blufor looses less.
means its less painful if collaborators get killed and more people might play it.

[bondsan]

kill em all !

[Heikkine]

There are many good suggestions in here and some very bad!

Okey, to begin with, what might happen IRL if you shoot innocent civilians? people might get angry and try to revenge the deaths, right? making the Insurgents stronger. because my fantasy of angry bot-mobs spawning around town rioting is a bit far fetched (for now..), i think it would be best if we'd give the insurgents what we can.. ASSETS! bomb-cars, techincals, transport cars, and the best i think: a 10 or less minute decrease in the mortar strike wait time.

I also think the 2 min "punish" for choosing a the civi kit is way of, make it around 90sec one. its 30 out of the 2 min but i bet its enough. or make it depend on how you die! driving a car etc..hands up etc...

I say we take of the epipen, not that many civilians have the know-how treating serious wounds that are mere fatal, and make the healing pack a non-threat, im betting that IRL you are allowed and you should help someone whos shot, without the fear of getting yourself shot.. and making the healing pack a non-threat would take the possibility of bleeding out the civi to avoid punishment. And to make it clear if someone shoots a civi, make them have less health or easyer to kill.

how about the breaching shotty? it could be a nice add for caching the pesky civilians, make it so that shooting them with the breaching shotty wont kill, but arrest them. let them climb up walls, we got the specialist kit to fetch them from the roofs, but they should be allowed to get shot in ladders and ropes (so people wont climb there to avoid getting arrested) ..

rock's are the civilians way of protesting. you should never shoot protesters, if someone protest you should only be allowed to arrest them, not kill.

court-mashaling the civi killers is a bad idea. losing a tank gunner because of that? cmon..
Just make theyre spawn time something like a minute up till 10 min. plus the lose of intel and personal stats go down a bit.

meh, thease are just my thoughts of the matter. but there is clearly things to be fixed with the kit.

[Spec]

a 10 or less minute decrease in the mortar strike wait time.

Actually... You could give away the position of the killer to the enemy team AND reduce the mortar strike time. That'd make it quite dangerous to shoot civilians.

And the breaching shotgun already acts as a less lethal one afaik.

[Nox.]

Because the black screen of awesomeness is boring and people want to have fun?

How is walking with hands up hoping that the guy with SAW on the roof isn't trigger happy and won't make red jelly out of me fun?

[Spec]

How is walking with hands up hoping that the guy with SAW on the roof isn't trigger happy and won't make red jelly out of me fun?

It isn't. But if people would not be trigger happy that often, it would be fun to have the freedom of the civilian kit: You are able to go anywhere, including areas that can normally not be reached, using the hook. You can watch the enemy without being in great danger yourself, you can heal teammates and revive them. Sometimes you might even be able to call in a mortar strike. That could be fun if it'd work - but sadly, people just shoot you because you are an indirect threat to them. Of course you are - you are supposed to. Thats the risk of being in a city with civilians who watch you. That should not be a reason to just kill any civilian on sight, though. But it's really hard to balance the penalties, it seems.

[Brummy]

It's feckin annoying. I was on RT and this guy in an apc just kept shooting 10 civis each and every time we spawned. Yet the US team still got caches and intel :/ They killed about 30-35 civis in total.

[driver-ch-driver]

i think that every time one of the BLUFOR palyers shoots a civi they should immidiatly be put back to the main base and not allowed out for a certain amount of time.

Civis should then be given the teamkill forgive/punish option for if they get shot at by one of the BLUFOR players and depending on wether or not the civi thinks it was an accident should determine the amount of time they are kept in the main base...

[Spartan0189]

Personally, I just arrest them, Just don't get hit by their Epipen.. It acts like a knife, just less accurate..

[Logaritm]

the idea that shooting civs will make the Insurgents stronger is a really good idea, but i think we could take it a step further and make the Collision weaker to, because that is what it would be in real life, if a civs gott killed the support for the Insurgents would get better while reports off civs getting killed by allied forces in USA and Great britain would make the war support plummet like a rock

[fenriz9000]

Well, DEVs are just making insurgent are unplayable by last changes, they added penalties, deviations, less damage, decreasing accuracy RPG, and etc to insurgents, while adding scopes to MG, removing increase intel points per cache, removing third cache respawn, disabling spawn when enemies are nearby.
I see that insurgency mode became less popular as before, some of servers removing insurgency maps, players not want to play as easy frags for blufor.
I think some DEVs just very like BluFor and doesnt want insurgency mode at all.

[Nox.]

Recently I had some really funny moments involving civies. As a sniper I was defending US base on Fallujah, spotted two guys in white shirts, one of them had a weapon in his hands. They approached the base, stopped like 300 meters from it, hands up, no weapons anymore. Now, I had to toss a coin which one was the guy who had the weapon in his hands just a minute ago so I don't shoot the innocent one.
I'm still trying to figure out what the one, who didnt get shot might think when his buddy, who was standing 1 meter away, all from nowhere got a headshot, his brain splashed into jelly, local background got barraged with skull fragments and blood...