Archer helis and baserape

[Rudd]

It is very easy to baserape the americans on Archer.

Now, thats not particularly bad in itself, since its a unique aspect of insurgency matches.

The helis are very easy to kill on the pad if you are one guy with a technical, drive over the lip of the hill, with a larger hill behind so your harder to spot, or come from the rear of where the helis are pointing, jump on the 50, kill, run away.

Now, What I suggest is a second US Base (or Canadian even )

I would suggest the use of the SW corner of the map with a dome of death. so that the choppers can reload without being pwned so easily on the pad. This would have no vehicle depot, just helipads. The logic works kinda like the old Kyongyangni heli base.

alternatively, or additionally, add a cappable flag at the airfield. If the Americans hold the flag, they gain a working helipad which reloads teh choppers. At the very least the choppers could have 2 places to land rather than teh guarenteed death zone of the main base.

Now, I know there is gonna be a 'bluefor preference omg' or 'they are n00bs, shouldn't land at main if its not safe' but I play Taliban plenty thank you. I get bored as F if we've killed all their vehicles. it means they'll eventually arrive, but we'll just pwn them completely or we'll sit there bored for 10mins until the assets respawn, assuming they don't get raped as soon as they spawn.

[cyberzomby]

hmmm, nothing personal but to me this sounds like:

Yea I want base-rape because its realistic, but I still want a gamey aspect so I can have my choppers up at all times.

I think the most important part of base-rape in archer, is to get the choppers. I wouldnt care about the infantry and vehicles there, you can get them easily with IED's and mines. It is to easy yes, but it takes one US squad defending those hills to prevent an easy acces.

But than again, I dont like servers that allow baserape like that. I'll play on 'm but you get stuff like that.

[Rudd]

ea I want base-rape because its realistic, but I still want a gamey aspect so I can have my choppers up at all times.

Now, thats not particularly bad in itself, since its a unique aspect of insurgency matches.

read what I say, not what you think I say. You would think that I've been around long enough not to be mistaken for a blufor loving n00b......... I don't care if the choppers get shot down while doing something but it simply doesn't require skill or teamwork to kill a chopper on a pad with a 1 man technical.

want realism eh? well think of the second base as the mini representation of the main airbase miles away, Kandahar or something. Also notice, the airbase suggestion is an alternative with fun strategic gameplay associated with it.

and I'm not talking about the land vehicles either....Since the problems detailed in this post are regarding teh choppers. The land vehicles are fine.

[Dev1200]

Baserape should be against the "rules" anyway. There's not enough people to defend main anyway, and the insurgents are already extreamly powerful already.. I get positive by playing infantry every time I play on the insurgent team, and negative by playing infantry every time I play on the US team. The 5.56 has no stopping power.. feels like using a pistol is more effective.

[Zimmer]

You can defend the main with three people if you want. I agree with Rudd teh choppers should be able to get more supplies by a helipad away from the main. What I think Rudd means is that the choppers will still spawn in the main, and that there is no spawn point at the refill station, its there only because its a represantation of a bigger base longer away.

[Dev1200]

You can defend the main with three people if you want. I agree with Rudd teh choppers should be able to get more supplies by a helipad.

Why do you think they made the dome of death?

[AquaticPenguin]

On archer, I've found if i'm not interested in a high intensity match. I'll sometimes just sit in the main defending it from incoming, it only takes a couple of people to thwart any attacks which people love to do on the base, and it's quite a lot of fun.

I think base-rape is an acceptable tactic to try on insurgents. It only takes 1 or 2 people to defend, but it can take 3 or 4 insurgents to successfully attack the base with a defending force there. So it does a good job of pulling the insurgents away from the main fight which imo is a plus. Unless the insurgents manage to down your chopper at base they're pretty much wasting assets trying - which is a good thing for blufor.

[snooggums]

If the insurgents are hitting base there's several places to land out of the way including in A8, while there's no resupply you can wait until friendlies clear the base for landing.


And if you have a two man technical it's even easier to roll over a hill and waste the choppers, but it only takes one guy in a humvee to defend base in most cases. It's just too easy to time the chopper respawn and nail it again before it can take off.

I don't have a good solution, but I also think vehicles should be worth a lot less points, transport choppers should be worth around 2.

[Rudd]

And if you have a two man technical it's even easier to roll over a hill and waste the choppers, but it only takes one guy in a humvee to defend base in most cases. It's just too easy to time the chopper respawn and nail it again before it can take off.

I've tried that tactic, you just get sniped out because your static and they can come from 360degrees.

Defending from the cliff is pretty good, but the barbed wire makes it difficult.

Really the fault is the main base position, its surrounded by cliffs and hills which isn't very clever.

Maybe the answer is just to increase the height of the main base right now by around 30-40m, that way the INS can only really baserape in to the actual base without vehicles if they are on teh cliff, which takes effort to do.

Baserape should be against the "rules" anyway. There's not enough people to defend main anyway, and the insurgents are already extreamly powerful already..

thats a debateable topic, but there are active threads about it. Lets please continue the thread with teh assumption that some servers are always going to allow baserape by insurgents.

[Dev1200]

Big Red rushes are probably one of the cheapest tactics in insurgency.. especially on al basrah.

Lets see how many tickets you lose if all of the assets are at main? (Ticket values are from the manual)



1 Tank (10) + 1 IFV(2, not 100% sure)(10) + 2 APC (10, 5 each) + ~6 Jeeps/Trucks (12, 2 each) + However many infantry was at main =

42 - 56 tickets gone in one strike. The BLUFOR has.. what.. 150-250 tickets? You lose 1/3 or 1/5 of your tickets.


That seems fair..

[Anhkhoa]

Big Red rushes are probably one of the cheapest tactics in insurgency.. especially on al basrah.

Lets see how many tickets you lose if all of the assets are at main? (Ticket values are from the manual)



1 Tank (10) + 1 IFV(2, not 100% sure)(10) + 2 APC (10, 5 each) + ~6 Jeeps/Trucks (12, 2 each) + However many infantry was at main =

42 - 56 tickets gone in one strike. The BLUFOR has.. what.. 150-250 tickets? You lose 1/3 or 1/5 of your tickets.


That seems fair..

"All's fair in love and war."

[M_Striker]

You know... it's actually hard for the technicals to destroy the helicopter on the pad. The new system gave the helicopter so much health that it takes 2 or even 3 technicals to destroy it. On the pad where crashing isn't a factor, and where health is regenerated, it's almost near impossible to destroy the helicopter itself. The infantry at main should get their act together and scare away the technical or go out and chase it with humvees.

[Outlawz7]

You could also have the helis spawn inside the hangars, players put them there anyway to prevent getting shot on the helipad.

[Elektro]

American Auto Rifleman kit outpowers a technical at any time

[Rudd]

The difference between al basrah and archer is that al basrah has only 1 enterance to the main, you can see for miles around, and small arms cannot enter the main base because of the hesco coupled with DoD

Archer has a completely differnet problem to basrah.

1 SAW gunner can kill a technical yes, but he has to be looking the correct direction, be deployed and wiling to stay in main all game.

Eventually the better USMC teams return to main and fight off the invaders, but not before 40 or so tickets are lost and their assets lost, meaning they spend the next 10mins walking through the map which is pretty boring for everyone if there isn't a cache near the USMC base to defend. I.e if a cache spawns at airfield, the Taliban get bored cuz they are defending a cache that the enemy will take ages to get to, and teh USMC get bored because they have to walk well over a K.

Gameplay wise that is undesirable imo, as its just boring for everyone.

[badmojo420]

I like the idea. The base in Archer is more of a FOB than an Airbase. In real life, an outpost that size wouldn't be home to two helicopters. When helicopters are needed, they would fly in from a much larger and more protected Airbase. Pick up troops stationed there, and take them to their destination. Really, there should never be a helicopter powered down, sitting on those helipads. Any time they're near that base, they are in danger.

The only downside i could see to this, is people spawning at the helicopter base to get around the whole problem of Taliban attacking the main. If only there was a way to allow only the pilots to spawn there.

[Celestial1]

I like the idea. The base in Archer is more of a FOB than an Airbase. In real life, an outpost that size wouldn't be home to two helicopters. When helicopters are needed, they would fly in from a much larger and more protected Airbase. Pick up troops stationed there, and take them to their destination. Really, there should never be a helicopter powered down, sitting on those helipads. Any time they're near that base, they are in danger.

The only downside i could see to this, is people spawning at the helicopter base to get around the whole problem of Taliban attacking the main. If only there was a way to allow only the pilots to spawn there.

The secondary base doesn't have to be a spawnpoint.

The helicopter pads could just be 'there' for when landing at main to get repairs isn't suitable.

You would still spawn and get the helicopters from the outpost, but instead of having to land and get repairs there you could go to the secondary landing area and get repairs there. Picking up troops would still require you to be at main... but repairing and just kind of staying out of the outpost when it's being attacked, the secondary pads would be used.

[badmojo420]

It's just good practice to have the helicopters idle and spawn in a safe location. You can't just wait until the base is under attack, then decide the helicopters should be over at the heli base. Or what about the case of a helicopter spawning at the outpost, while it's being attacked? A heli is supposed to do pre-flight(warm up) and take off under fire?

[Jigsaw]

Agreed with Rudd, I think that Archer suffers the same baseraping issue as Korengal does (did ) in that it is way too easy to kill the helis due to the hilly terrain. Now I don't think there should be a second base set up in the SE corner simply because it would still be very close to the oil refinery and I don't see that as fitting to gameplay.

I would on the other hand really like to see the Airbase as a capable flag, it is a really interesting area to fight over, and simply makes sense that the BLUFOR would use it as a base of operations. So +1 to that suggestion.

[Rudd]

The secondary base doesn't have to be a spawnpoint.

The helicopter pads could just be 'there' for when landing at main to get repairs isn't suitable.

You would still spawn and get the helicopters from the outpost, but instead of having to land and get repairs there you could go to the secondary landing area and get repairs there. Picking up troops would still require you to be at main... but repairing and just kind of staying out of the outpost when it's being attacked, the secondary pads would be used.

actualy thats a good summary of the solution, nice one mate