Blackhawk Down

[Celestial1]

Without special rules? Imagine that

Without special rules, he managed to live, yes.

However, it still stands that jets are more likely to (1) explode instantly on impact with AA missile (2) smack pilot as he jumps out.

The whole disabled effect on jets would contribute to removing both of these issues, and would allow pilots to bail out.

The pilots=tickets are just incentives for more pilots to bail out. But they're not worth squat without the disabled effect, IMO.

[snooggums]

Without special rules, he managed to live, yes.

However, it still stands that jets are more likely to (1) explode instantly on impact with AA missile (2) smack pilot as he jumps out.

The whole disabled effect on jets would contribute to removing both of these issues, and would allow pilots to bail out.

The pilots=tickets are just incentives for more pilots to bail out. But they're not worth squat without the disabled effect, IMO.

This thread is about making the pilot worth additional points, not the chances of bailing out.

[AquaticPenguin]

I think
a) split the kits, give both kits a pistol with 1 mag but only jet pilot gets a parachute.
b) make pilots worth 10 tickets and their vehicles 5
c) give the jets some disabled time so the pilots can get out.
- also, change the effect for when a jet explodes, when they get hit they seem to slow down instantly and slowly drop vertically to the ground which looks unnatural. If possible they should maintain more momentum.
d) give the pilot kits a very large spawn time (5 minutes on death, 10 minutes on capture), to make sure they don't try and rambo and to give some incentive not to die for pubbers who don't care as much about team tickets.
e) on insurgency, a captured pilot loses the coalition intel.

^ those are my suggestions. I think they would give some incentive for the pilots to not die, and the large spawntimes would discourage some players who aren't dedicated to the role. Pilots wouldn't have to have the team come to help them, as they can fight their way out if they have to. On many maps a second chopper could come to assist, hopefully the spawntimes would discourage them from suiciding and encourage them to have some fun trying to get out alive.

For insurgency. When no caches are visible, the team would have a reason to help out any downed pilots. They would be a source of fighting when there is nothing to fight over giving a chance to gain intel and a chance to have fun as opposed to sitting at a fob. When caches are visible, some insurgents may try to get the downed pilot, and some blufor may try to save them, but both sides main objective is the caches, not the pilot. It would give a job for the recon squads who seem to twiddle their thumbs walking around aimlessly during matches.

[mat552]

I think
d) give the pilot kits a very large spawn time (5 minutes on death, 10 minutes on capture), to make sure they don't try and rambo and to give some incentive not to die for pubbers who don't care as much about team tickets.

O.O

I can leave and rejoin the server at least three times in ten minutes.
And what happens when you get tk'd by accident (or on purpose) or are otherwise killed through circumstances beyond your control?

Stacking more spawn times onto kits does not work, and simply makes them a larger target. (And much less fun to play)

[google]

It's really just about the players. Some people enjoy actually playing the game realistacally by using proper tactics instead of bumrushing (if you've ever played with fuzzhead, you'll know exactly what I mean). If you want to rescue a pilot and think it might be cool to do so, then go ahead and do so. I'm sure it'd be a fun experience and not be the same old cap flag gameplay. However, as Rudd said, introducing a system that forces the team to rescue pilots due to the cost of tickets is not the answer. Bonuses aren't really the answer either because they can be so exploitable (the other way that makes pilot cost tickets is also rather exploitable). So, if you want to play a game out and have realistic scenarios, such as rescuing down pilots, it's up to the players to make that decision. The game should not be modified like this just to make pilots feel better or make them feel more important.

[Rudd]

(if you've ever played with fuzzhead, you'll know exactly what I mean)

hell yeah, we defended the heck outta Estate with a 3 squad formation











there was no flag at estate...and the flags were at the bridge and across the river, but Estate was safe!

[AquaticPenguin]

And what happens when you get tk'd by accident

Yes there is a risk of accidental teamkills, but the majority of times I see that happening is if people aren't looking at what they're shooting or when trying to say thank you to a medic etc. And I'm not sure how you would manage to accidentally kill a pilot in their (reasonably) protected cockpit.

(or on purpose) or are otherwise killed through circumstances beyond your control?

I don't see many intentional teamkills on PR, this is partly down to the community and the small numbers of avaliable servers, people can easily get a bad reputation. People can't pick up pilot kits after they've shot someone who has one, and iirc they get a "watch your fire" message if they try to request one (? not so sure about that). It's not a huge problem currently and I don't see it being a massive problem if this change was made. Bear in mind I'm only proposing 5 minutes for a death which is similar to a civilians spawn time - I don't want to convert this into a civi discussion just highlight the fact that people are willing to play a class even with a long spawn time.

Please tell me any circumstances beyond my control? The only one I can think of is disconnecting and you have to rejoin anyway so that's obsolete. Perhaps from falling off buildings too.

Stacking more spawn times onto kits does not work, and simply makes them a larger target. (And much less fun to play)

Spawntimes are one of the only things that some pubbers care about, along with their personal score, many will not care if they lose team tickets on their death so they need a hybrid approach.

Perhaps 5/10 minutes is a little extreme, but accidental teamkills are rare and intentional teamkilling is quite difficult to do once you're in the air. (They could try shooting you but you can turn around, and I've had someone fire a lat at me whilst I was landing and it didn't kill me). People could try and get around it by leaving and joining again but I should imagine that would be a lot of hassle.

However, as Rudd said, introducing a system that forces the team to rescue pilots due to the cost of tickets is not the answer.

I don't think that my approach would force people to try and rescue pilots. By putting part on the vehicle and part on the pilot you don't lose much if you don't try to save the pilots, the pilots have incentive to survive but it's not paramount to victory. But by fighting over the pilots you get something to do in the spare time and also a means for collecting intel for caches. This means any pilot saved is good for the team, but if you don't save the pilots you're in the same position as you are currently.

[mat552]

Please tell me any circumstances beyond my control? The only one I can think of is disconnecting and you have to rejoin anyway so that's obsolete. Perhaps from falling off buildings too.

The way "fall" damage is handled means that if I so much as look at a ledge (or steep hill), I've got a pretty good chance of taking one more point of damage than the field dressing can heal, starting a slow and painful death from a broken ankle. This isn't a problem in base, but if I was able to bail out more, I would probably run into more of these situations.

Getting run down by an overenthusiastic rescuer has happened once or twice to me, and we don't even want to get into the random occurrences that can happen when the engine decides to start screwing with me.

Bear in mind I'm only proposing 5 minutes for a death which is similar to a civilians spawn time - I don't want to convert this into a civi discussion just highlight the fact that people are willing to play a class even with a long spawn time.

I just gotta say this one thing, I've seen a massive fall off in civi play since the spawn time increase, and I personally won't let them in my squad because they are so bloody useless.

[AquaticPenguin]

Another point is if you didn't have the spawn time the pilots would just end up sitting around on the carrier waiting for their chopper to spawn anyway. Fall damage does pose a problem, that could be solved by giving pilots a couple of bandages instead, random occurences like the weird heli-losing-power bug that I've seen are quite uncommon, but normally you still get a chance to get out before the thing destroys itself.

Maybe adjust the times... instead of 5 for a death and 10 for a capture, maybe 2 and a half for a death and 5 for a capture. I'm not saying that it must be this time, just using them as examples to see if people think the system would work.

[Nemus]

I dont understand why such "love" for the pilots and not medics, APC crews etc.

There is not an official rule in the war that says: "Pilots umber alles (sorry of German folks if i typed it wrong )" Its an unwritten rule in the head of all soldiers: "no man behind", and not: "no pilot behind".
Nobody is forced to leave his objectives and risks his life for a rescue mission when its needed to accomplish an important task. And if he does it his main reward its morale.

So i believe it must be rewarded with the satisfaction and fun of a well organized rescue, not with ingame rewards.

[Alex6714]

It's really just about the players. Some people enjoy actually playing the game realistacally by using proper tactics instead of bumrushing (if you've ever played with fuzzhead, you'll know exactly what I mean). If you want to rescue a pilot and think it might be cool to do so, then go ahead and do so. I'm sure it'd be a fun experience and not be the same old cap flag gameplay. However, as Rudd said, introducing a system that forces the team to rescue pilots due to the cost of tickets is not the answer. Bonuses aren't really the answer either because they can be so exploitable (the other way that makes pilot cost tickets is also rather exploitable). So, if you want to play a game out and have realistic scenarios, such as rescuing down pilots, it's up to the players to make that decision. The game should not be modified like this just to make pilots feel better or make them feel more important.

This. Now people get it.

I think
d) give the pilot kits a very large spawn time (5 minutes on death, 10 minutes on capture), to make sure they don't try and rambo and to give some incentive not to die for pubbers who don't care as much about team tickets.

The reason this won´t work is:

1) Can rejoin the server many times.
2) No one will care because since every aircraft has the same or higher spawn time than 10 minutes its just a form of waiting without having to take abuse for not doing anything.

Yes, it stops you doing anything for 10 minutes but, either its an opportunity to alt + tab and browse or just rejoin the server and go about your buisiness so it won´t really change a thing.