Bullet Drops

[Dreadnought1984]

I've done some searching and come up empty. If there is a thread that covers this already, just direct me there and lock this.

I want to know the distances that bullets begin to drop with each weapon. I've heard sniper rifles are 600m. Does this include the scoped enfield? What range do marksman rifles begin to drop. (Are they are all the same?) I've heard assault rifles are 300m. What about SKS, PKM, SAW, non-scoped enfield etc?

[smart_boy00]

I'm interested in this to, but just from observing the game and how my shots land I would almost say its more of a bullet placement rather than drop factor. I see a lot of times I have the "X" on the guy and shoot from 300+ away and the shot hits to the left or right as well as up or down. It might be a scatter pattern or accuracy adjustment at the range of most guns? Please let us know and tell me how wrong I am lol.

[privetB]

generally you can say:
sniper = 600m
marksman = 600m
LMG = 350m
assault rifle = 300m
mp = 100m
pistol= 50m

I think it is described in the manual at which range the guns are zeroed. But i am not sure at which range pistols and mps are ranged (those i wrote are from arma 2 lol)

[Arnoldio]

It says in the wiki

[Dreadnought1984]

mp = 100m

showing my noobness here, but what's the mp?

It says in the wiki

isn't the wiki currently down?

[flem615]

I think he means machine pistol. Aka submachine guns. Correct me if I'm wrong

[Conman51]

ive never noticed any bullet drop

[Dreadnought1984]

generally you can say:
sniper = 600m
marksman = 600m
LMG = 350m
assault rifle = 300m
mp = 100m
pistol= 50m

I think it is described in the manual at which range the guns are zeroed. But i am not sure at which range pistols and mps are ranged (those i wrote are from arma 2 lol)

Thanks for the new info. I suppose all I want after this is conformation that all guns of any category above are the same as far as this goes.

[wookimonsta]

im not sure, i never really engage targets at a distance where bullet drop becomes a problem unless i am sniper, and there you never really have to go that far up. most ive gone over somebodies head was about 3 millimeters, and that was at maximum sight range on jabal while they were lying down behind cover and just the top of the head was showing.

there are some sniper guides on the forum somewhere.

some tips are:
if someone is standing at large distances, just aim at the head, the bullet drop will take the bullet into their chest.
if someone is lying down, aim a few millimeters above their head, and fire where you get the most bodymass. (meaning that if the bullet drops, it will still hit something)

[TheLean]

In real life a rifle is set (zeroed) to hit exactly at the crosshair at a certain distance, which is usually around 2-300 meters for assault rifles. Zeroed in means that the bullet should hit exactly where we are aiming the crosshair at that certain range. The bullets IRL actually travels above the crosshair when at 100 meters and dead on when at the zeroed range. When the bullet starts to drop it drops in a non-linear trajectory. For example that if the rifle is zeroed at 200 meters the bullet will hit 10 centimeters above the crosshair at 100 meters, exactly at the crosshair at 200 meters, 20 centimeters below at 300 meters and then 50 centimeters below the crosshair at 400 meters. These figures are fictous and exaggerated but you get the idea.



Look at the graph in this example to get an idea of what im talking about. You can also see that the bullet starts below the scope (obviously). In real close ranges the bullets hit a bit below the crosshair. Also notes that the bullets drop more rapidly at longer ranges.


The PR bullets seems to fly straight to a certain point and then start to drop in a linear pattern, meaning for example 10 centimeters below the crosshair for every extra 100 meters. But this is just guesses. Any developer or coder who knows for sure are welcome to tell us how it really works in PR.

[RHYS4190]

In real life a rifle is set (zeroed) to hit exactly at the crosshair at a certain distance, which is usually around 2-300 meters for assault rifles. Zeroed in means that the bullet should hit exactly where we are aiming the crosshair at that certain range. The bullets IRL actually travels above the crosshair when at 100 meters and dead on when at the zeroed range. When the bullet starts to drop it drops in a non-linear trajectory. For example that if the rifle is zeroed at 200 meters the bullet will hit 10 centimeters above the crosshair at 100 meters, exactly at the crosshair at 200 meters, 20 centimeters below at 300 meters and then 50 centimeters below the crosshair at 400 meters. These figures are fictous and exaggerated but you get the idea.



Look at the graph in this example to get an idea of what im talking about. You can also see that the bullet starts below the scope (obviously). In real close ranges the bullets hit a bit below the crosshair. Also notes that the bullets drop more rapidly at longer ranges.



The PR bullets seems to fly straight to a certain point and then start to drop in a linear pattern, meaning for example 10 centimeters below the crosshair for every extra 100 meters. But this is just guesses. Any developer or coder who knows for sure are welcome to tell us how it really works in PR.

I think your on to some thing here, with the bullet drop. but your exaggerating a bit.

you stuffed up your English, 1 centimetre is roughly about the width of your little finger, So yeah if we where shotting ping pong balls at each other then there would be a bullet drop of about 10 cm.

What you are looking at is a bullet drop of a few millimetres. Not 10cm lol.

If you where aiming 10cm above your target you’d practically be firing into bloody orbit and be more liable to hit the sodding international space station. lol

But yeah cool idea though i think it has a lot of merit. il definitely give it a go.

[puppezed]

I think your on to some thing here, with the bullet drop. but your exaggerating a bit.

you stuffed up your English, 1 centimetre is roughly about the width of your little finger, So yeah if we where shotting ping pong balls at each other then there would be a bullet drop of about 10 cm.

What you are looking at is a bullet drop of a few millimetres. Not 10cm lol.

If you where aiming 10cm above your target you’d practically be firing into bloody orbit and be more liable to hit the sodding international space station. lol

Either I misunderstood what you wrote or you are mixing up length units and angle units.

Let´s take for example the flight path of an 7.62x39 AK round from Lapua and presume the gun is zeroed to 150m. The flight path is:
50m : +3.2 cm
100m: +4.8 cm
150m: 0 cm
200m: -9.0cm
300m: -64.3cm
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upl ... es2009.pdf
So if you are shooting at ranges of 300m the drop is 64.3cm and you have to aim that much above the target in order to hit it dead on.

With a mildot sniper scope, milradian angle unit comes into play. 64,3cm@300m equals 2.2 milradians. Since the angle between dots in a mildot reticle is 1 milradian, using the second dot under the cross section of the scope would mean a hold over of 2 milradians which equals 60cm@300m which is pretty close the required 64.3cm hold over. 1 milradian angle equals the length of 10cm@100m and 30cm@300m.


I can tell by first hand experience that hitting a man sized target with an AK (well, at least with a Finnish AK) is quite easy but you do have to take bullet drop into account either by aiming above the target or by manually adjusting sights.

I´d like to see Project Reality putting more emphasis to ballistic flight paths of all projectiles (bullets, RPGs, cannon round etc). In my opinion Red Orchestra (previously WW2 Unreal Tournament mod, now a stand alone game) has implemented ballistic flight paths pretty well and the bullets really do drop. It makes hitting targets more challenging but much more realistic and rewarding.

[McBumLuv]

I´d like to see Project Reality putting more emphasis to ballistic flight paths of all projectiles (bullets, RPGs, cannon round etc). In my opinion Red Orchestra (previously WW2 Unreal Tournament mod, now a stand alone game) has implemented ballistic flight paths pretty well and the bullets really do drop. It makes hitting targets more challenging but much more realistic and rewarding.

My thoughts exactly

However, as far as I can see, the only perceptible problem keeping ballistics from being implemented into previous version is that there's an unfortunate bug with the BF2 engine where tracer rounds will actually drop at a much greater rate (because of either reduced speed or increased drag, I cannot remember which though). Interestingly, it only happens if the tracer rounds are one in every x number of bullets, the tracer bug doesn't come into effect if all rounds are tracers or none are.

That's the only obvious problem with the being implemented, AFAIK, but if any Dev can correct me the extra information would be greatly appreciated.

In any case, Combined Arms has implemented ballistics (I believe it was Zangoo finishing his project, as well), and they work well, the only difference otherwise is that all rounds are tracers, though the tracers are slightly smaller. And seeing as many things from CA are beeing ported over straight into PR, it might increase the chances of finally seeing ballistics inPR on the bf2 engine.

ATM the only mod that accurately recreates them is the WoOkIe sniper mod

[MrScruff]

The guys with the graph just reminded me of a great little tool I used before on another game. It was also based on reality but set in WW2. Using planes, tanks, trucks, transport planes, bombers, etc etc etc. The game however was even MORE realistic. Each squad would be given a mission, and that could be to transport troops to the front, drop bombs, move a supply convoy to the front. Everything done in real life was put in that game. Even changing gears in tanks and trucks. Even starting the engine. Opening the hatch.

ANYWAYS, the point Im getting at is the marksman rifles and snipers in that game had this sweet function whereby you can zero in your target by adjusting the sight according to the distance. If the target is 245m away you would be able to put a setting on that general distance i.e. 200m or 250m. The game allowed you to adjust your sights by selecting the same weapon slot. In BF2 and PR selecting the same weapon slot merely changes fire modes. However if we want to aim at "reality" then get this suggestion:

Sniper rifles vary on some maps. Small maps i.e. Insurgency 2km map get the M24, which in PR has a less powerful scope than the sniper rifles on those 4km maps i.e. Kashan Desert and Quinling. Since the sniper rifles don't have a fire mode selection why not implement a sight adjustment module. And each time you select the same weapon slot to change distance settings it will loop around these options, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, etc etc. The reason why I mentioned the 2 different sniper rifles that PR accommodates is because I only really see this module useful on 4km maps.

[McBumLuv]

-snipped stuff about zeroing methods-

Well, that's possible with the BF2 engine, but we don't need o go to lengths of creating different weapon slots. The WoOkIe sniper mod uses the command screen to elavate the scope to different Mil settings. IIRC, I'm pretty sure it was created by Mosquill (an ex-pr dev), whose's also made a similar system for BF2142.

For TR (the mod for bf2142), he used the Q-rose rather than the command screen to set elavation, however. I'm really not sure if using the Q-rose in the same manner is possible with the BF2 engine, however close they may be. But I would think there should be a fairly good chance of that also being possible, which would be awesome.

Anyways, I'm not sure if it would be possible to have a different command/squad screen based per kit, but if the Q-rose idea isn't possible but that is, well we know using the squad screen to set elavation is possible with the BF2 engine

Anyways, to get a feeling for ballistics and the BF2 engine, I'd highly suggest that anyone interested also take a look at the sniper mod, which'll have an event coming up in a few days anyways.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f376-p ... -post.html

[Tannhauser]

And seeing as many things from CA are beeing ported over straight into PR, it might increase the chances of finally seeing ballistics inPR on the bf2 engine.

Really!?
That's sweet! I hope DEVs will do that for ballistics, it'll stop players from going ''BUT I HAD A SHOT ON HIM! WTF did I miss!?!11!11''

[TheLean]

Either I misunderstood what you wrote or you are mixing up length units and angle units.

Let´s take for example the flight path of an 7.62x39 AK round from Lapua and presume the gun is zeroed to 150m. The flight path is:
50m : +3.2 cm
100m: +4.8 cm
150m: 0 cm
200m: -9.0cm
300m: -64.3cm
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upl ... es2009.pdf
So if you are shooting at ranges of 300m the drop is 64.3cm and you have to aim that much above the target in order to hit it dead on.

Yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say. I read my text again and it makes sense to me, but I guess it is my explaining or english that is confusing.

[privetB]

I think he means machine pistol. Aka submachine guns. Correct me if I'm wrong

yeah. I am sorry, I forget that it is sub machine gun ^^. In germany those kind of weapons are called Maschinenpistole, which means machine pistol(as you said).

[McBumLuv]

Really!?
That's sweet! I hope DEVs will do that for ballistics, it'll stop players from going ''BUT I HAD A SHOT ON HIM! WTF did I miss!?!11!11''

I dunno, it's up to the devs, but seeing as sounds/hydra deviation and stuff got into 0.86 and were done by the CA team, I'm hoping ballistics will get in as well for 0.9, with a large deviation reduction of course