Reduce AK's delay

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-06-04 05:22

I know the AK's (both 101 and 47) accuracy has already been thoroughly discussed in this forum and I don't mean to spam it, but after playing PRMM a lot for some weeks, I came to the conclusion that there's a big 'wait time' before you can get an accurate shot with these weapons (e.g. when you stop moving and take aim).

Yes, I know that IRL AK's are less accurate than M16's, but I don't understand the longer 'wait time'. Why do you aim faster with the M-16? The ingame AK's themselves ARE accurate and I've done a lot of sniping with them when I have time to sit on a roof or something, but when it comes to combat, they are nearly useless. You can't hit anything even at medium-short distances, which makes no sense to me. After all is it sniper rifle or assault rifle?

Is it going to be tweaked in future versions? I'm worried because it's kinda unbalanced.

Andrew_Kirk_25 · Post by **Andrew_Kirk_25** » 2006-06-04 08:19

AKs are actually pretty damn acurate IRL. Only on the first shot though. After that they're hopeless. This is why, if you just go with your instincts and hold the trigger until one of you dies, you will just end up looking at the sky for 30+ seconds. You need to shoot bursts.

AnarchyZG · Post by **AnarchyZG** » 2006-06-04 10:11

Having fired different models of AK I must say that on semi-auto it's a very accurate weapon at typical combat ranges of 150-200m. At 150m I grouped shots in an area of roughly the size of the helmet. No sweat. Recoil is VERY light.
On full auto it's a different story, full auto is waste of ammo if the target is further then 100m away.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-04 10:19

Is it me or is the AK-101's in game rate of fire also below its real life counterpart? The AK-47 and AK-101 are definitely slower at firing than the RPK-74 in game, but in real life they all have a ROF of 600rpm.

[k]MuffinMaster · Post by **[k]MuffinMaster** » 2006-06-04 13:14

I think no one here ever fired an AK-101.. because it's not available to the general public at this point.
I think we all came to the conclusion that the recoil of the AK-101 should be matched up with the recoil of the M-16...

Iasthai · Post by **Iasthai** » 2006-06-04 13:24

Hes not talking about the accuracy Guys, hes talking about the aim delay, from normal vision to iron sight, i have to agree its pretty strange, unless i do full auto from the hip i normally get beat by M16s at short ranges. could that be to reflect that the AK is a heavier weapon? thus being alittle bit harder to shoulder?

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-06-04 17:18

Yes, Iasthai, YOU got my point: IT'S THE DELAY TO GET ACCURACY, NOT THE AK ACCURACY ITSELF (which I think is fine the way it is).

About the weigh, even if the AK is a bit heavier, it shouldn't account that much, because currently the delay is very exaggerated.

I just want some balance, ppl are switching to US while the MEC/CHINA is beeing outnumbered...

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-04 17:31

The author of this post was referring to the 'settle' time, the transition between standing accuracy and iron sight accuracy. For the M16 this is very quick, almost instantly from right clicking will you be super accurate, but with the AK series you have to wait a second or two longer to get the full effects.

It's not about the time it takes to go from hip shooting to iron sights, that's almost instant for all weapons and all the times are the same.

Indeed, there is a difference, but I think it's because the difference between the AK's standard and iron sight accuracy is greater than that of the M16, natural the delay is going to be longer. Either way, it adds variation. My main concern with the weapons are their rates of fire.

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-06-04 18:28

OK, now i did something I don't really like: went thru the internet to find info on these weapons. It turns out that both Malik and I were right:

- About rate of fire: both AK-47 and AK-101 have a rate of fire of 600 rpm;

- About weigh: AK-47 is the heaviest with about 4.8 kg when loaded, M-16 and AK-101 are about the same with something close to 3.9 kg when loaded (the M249 machinegun weighs 10 kg when loaded, much heavier). Thus there should be no big difference in the settle time among the assault rifles.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm
http://www.ak-47.net/
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/ka50.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as04-e.htm
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/akru/ak101.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_%28rifle%29#Design
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm

BOTTOM LINE: the ingame AKs need tweaking. I'm particularly more worried about the settle time than the rate of fire, because it influences more in the game, since most of the time you should be in single shot mode. (CQB actually only happens when you're capping a flag and the enemy spawns next to you)

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-04 20:35

Hold on, when you say 'the delay to get accuracy', are you referring to the recoil? The fact that when you pull the trigger on the AK it seems to fly up about a foot then slowly comes back down to where you last fired from? I can see where you're coming from now, but it is possible for two similarly weighted guns firing identical ammo to have different recoil levels, it all depends on the springs and stuff in the firing mechanism or something, I don't really know much about the workings of firearms. Either way, it is quite frustrating that the AKs don't settle very well after firing off rounds, especially because the RPK-74 does, and not to mention the fact that the RPK-74 in game has a rate of fire faster than the other AKs when it too should also be 600rpm.

twisted · Post by **twisted** » 2006-06-04 23:33

i find something amiss on the ak as well. it seems a little off even on its first shot. i only use semi for firing and with the m16 i can hit targets from a distance. but whith the ak i seem to miss more often than usual. is this due to the deviation? if so there should not be a lot of deviation on the first shot - the gun doesn't have a magic wobbly barrel. recoil is what makes bullets go off course, but the first bullet should go where the gun is aiming.

S.O.P · Post by **S.O.P** » 2006-06-05 00:21

In particular the Chinese AK-47. Its single shot is very poor.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-06-05 00:25

S.O.P wrote:In particular the Chinese AK-47. Its single shot is very poor.

That thing is awful.

solipsism · Post by **solipsism** » 2006-06-05 02:49

I agree with the 2 posts above.

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-06-05 03:02

No Malik, I'm not talking about recoil, I'm talking about the first shot. The 'settle time', the time you have to wait still before taking the first shot.

And I don't believe that a weapon such as the AK-47, famous and largely used worldwide, can be that awful as it is in the game.

Andrew_Kirk_25 · Post by **Andrew_Kirk_25** » 2006-06-05 09:48

S.O.P wrote:In particular the Chinese AK-47. Its single shot is very poor.

In real life the Chinese use the Type 47, which is a shit-as-all-hell AK clone. Which is why it sucks so much in BF2.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-06-05 11:53

Andrew_Kirk_25 wrote:In real life the Chinese use the Type 47, which is a shit-as-all-hell AK clone. Which is why it sucks so much in BF2.

Type 56, actually. And they dont use it anymore. All chinese troops use the type 81 now (as seen a Teienamen square) (an indigionus design firing 7.62x39, not as some have suggested a copy of the AK-74) and they are currently upgrading to the type 95 5.8mm assault rifle (as seen in the Chinese take over of Hong Kong)