Increase Sniper Rifle Accuracy

Crawley · Post by **Crawley** » 2006-06-04 22:23

You're not wrong there, but if it wasn't fair then nobody would play on the less able side. Hence balance.

I think you guys are missing the point, there are other ways to balance the game while keep reality... each team can be better at one thing and another better at the other, or depending on the map more people on this side then that side...

There are ways to balance it.

And its not turning into a flame war it is on topic.

Post by **duckhunt** » 2006-06-04 23:11

I already posted it would be balanced+realistic if the Bolt action snipers had better accuracy than the semi auto because they compensate with Rate of fire. Probably giving the very similar average kill/per min. It is realistic as the newer M24/L96 are more accurate than the SVD/type 88 IRL. It would also reflect the precision marksmanship of coalition forces and the more 'cavalier' approach of certain other forces, MEC more so.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-06-04 23:35

duckhunt wrote:I already posted it would be balanced+realistic if the Bolt action snipers had better accuracy than the semi auto because they compensate with Rate of fire. Probably giving the very similar average kill/per min. It is realistic as the newer M24/L96 are more accurate than the SVD/type 88 IRL. It would also reflect the precision marksmanship of coalition forces and the more 'cavalier' approach of certain other forces, MEC more so.

The ranges experienced in BF2 are so short that, by and large, the greater accuracy of the M24/L96A1 would not be overly noticable, the drag is accurate out to 600m, which is plenty in game, as at least I rarely, if ever, enguage at ranges beyond 500m. Then again, I rarely use sniper systems.

Also, please remember, in PRMM the MEC is a highly trained professional army. I dont think that their snipers would have any more of a 'cavalier' approach than those of the US or UK.

Crawley · Post by **Crawley** » 2006-06-04 23:50

I dont think that their snipers would have any more of a 'cavalier' approach than those of the US or UK.

Umm

US & UK Tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any Middle Eastern Country (not including Israel)

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » 2006-06-05 01:39

omg..this is going nowhere...next please.

Post by **duckhunt** » 2006-06-05 02:00

USEFUL!

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-05 16:32

And since when have the PLA not been a professional fighting force too? They have the largest army in the world, damnit!

Crawley, I understand realistically most Dragunovs come with the 4x scopes, but is it really hard to just pretend that the MEC paid for a refit of all SVDs with the (whatever magnification PRMM uses for the SVD)x scopes? Let's say they decided the trusty SVD was the most appropriate rifle for their sniper role and they decided to buy it, and on their order they requested higher powered optics to engage longer range targets for whatever reason.

Regardless of reality, it's just not fair if the UK ASSAULT and MEDIC classes are going to be on par with the MEC's longest range SNIPER class.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-06-05 16:34

*whispers* I've been speaking to a Korean who is v clued up on Chinese weapons informs my that their main DM/sniper is an......SVD clone (Type 79) with a 4x optic - the 5.8 ammunition in the Type 88 is being phased out except for SF.

Crawley · Post by **Crawley** » 2006-06-05 19:35

SVD, isnt a true sniper rifle... mabye find an alternative.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-06-05 19:46

Well tbh the visual range of the BF2 engine is more fitting to a DM rifle/class. But that might be a different debate.

Ah just twigged the Type 88 is the one that is in BF2 atm. This weapon is heading out of service (no ammuntion etc but was a 'real sniper rifle'.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-05 20:27

Head out of service? Haven't they only just started using the 5.8mm recently? Weird...

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-06-05 20:41

I was talking to a Korean about this over the last few weeks and he says that the 5.8 is now being phased out (including the Type 95 range) and is being used solely for SF units. So the QBZ-95, QBB-95 and Type88 are all going out. Factories not producing 5.8mm ammo etc.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-05 20:51

That's odd of them, I read so much about their testing of the low calibre rounds for penetration and all that about them developing the 5.8mm weapons and stuff, and to hear it's being phased out already is just... odd. Do you know if they've got some new weapons in the pipeline or are they just going back to their Type 81s? It'd be nice if they stuck to their QBZs and at LEAST changed the barrels and ammo, those things looked so awesome.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-06-05 21:03

The 5.8 ammo is quite old tbh - at least 10-12 yars when it started entering development and entered service in 1997. Now I'm not sure why they are moving away from it - my contact's Russian isn't good enough and my Korean and Mandarin are...well....non existant. But from what I can gather, it makes no sense. The 5.8 will have sightly better stopping power than the 5.56 round and in terms of production would not be difficult to produce. Its damned confusing.

In terms of a cross over to NATO type rounds (5.56), there is already a QBZ-97 (About 7 years now at least) that chambers a 5.56 NATO round. The Chinese are also rechambering te weapons for 5.56 rounds - including the Type 03 rifle and perhaps the Type 95 range more extensively but that is yet to be seen.

It is truly confusing but as always this is the case in China.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-05 21:07

When you talk of it being 10-12 years old, that always freaks me out. I always think of 1995 as like 5 years old, I forget it's actually nearly 12. :S

I hope the Chinese decide what they want pretty soon, I really want to see the full QBZ family in PR at one point, it'll be boring if they stick to Kalashnikovs.

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » 2006-06-05 21:10

If your not confused your not paying attention really plays an effect here huh?

TobiasReaper · Post by **TobiasReaper** » 2006-06-05 22:15

hello everybody, and welcome to my first post

let's see if we can get this thread back on topic...

If I got the drift here right, quite a few here agree with my feelings that the snipers currently don't feel quite sniper like.
Talking of myself as example: with the semiautos I have the most success when I bring up the scope, wait a second or two, and then squese off 3-4 shots in rapid succession (rapid for a sniper beeing 1-2 shots per second).
Of course the hit rate is higher if I wait 5 seconds before EACH shot. but it's not so much higher to warant shooting 5 times less bullets...
so the way the snipers handle at the moment, they have better optics then the assault rifles, but not so much better accuracy (hardly noticable).

This leaves us with the question: how could we make the snipers handle more like snipers - without making them TOO good (we don't want the game to turn into a sniper festival after all, right?)

well, how about driving this whole "letting the sight settle" story to extremes?
Allow me to explain: currently it seems like lettin the sight setle a few seconds (without moving the body) before shooting increases accuracy a bit (personal feeling is you have about double chance to hit a head at 100m after waiting for 3-4 seconds).
Now, if snipers should feel like snipers, they should be certain to hit with this ONE shot - that's currently not possible. But if we make it possible... then snipers are too good - UNLESS it takes forever to archieve that accurracy....

So how about giving snipers near-perfect precission - but needing to let the sight settle for a looong time, and basicaly beeing unable to hit anything before a few seconds have passed.

If possible to implement a optimum would (imho) be:
after moving the body, about 10 seconds to reach current accuracy, 15 seconds for "perfect" shot
about 5 seconds between shots for "perfect" aim... maybe 4 to reach current accuracy...
but before that time, have the deviation really, really big, so hitting something would require quite alot of luck.
Maybe it would even work having abit longer "aiming and adjustment" times - if the resulting shot is worth the wait.

Result: snipers CAN do repeatable one shot kills, but not everyone is going to play as sniper, because they require paitience and a lot of skill to get into position stealthy - there is no way to just dive into prone and pop some head 150 meters away.

abouve suggestions would transform PR snipers into true snipers: capable to reach out and touch somone (e.g.: that guy manning the stinger on the other side of the river, the machin gun gunner... what ever) but beeing pretty screwed if a full squad realises where they hide and start moving that way using cover and trying not to present a target, supressive fire on his position (if he moves for cover: re-aim again, not just popping up and shoot....)

hop_ic · Post by **hop_ic** » 2006-06-05 22:21

the accuracy need to be increased on the sniper atleast on the crouching mode. A support can crouch and be accurate and a sniper can't. You need to make the sniper more accurate because I mean why would they give a sniper to someone who cannot be accurate on crouch or standing. Fix it please.

Crawley · Post by **Crawley** » 2006-06-05 22:31

A support can crouch and be accurate

Spray & Pray, small bursts.

TobiasReaper · Post by **TobiasReaper** » 2006-06-05 22:37

increasing the sniper accuracy on crouch too is interesting - but maybe a bit dangerous (Gameplay balance wise)... when I posted abouve long article

I was thinking wheter it makes sense to give crouched snipers an maximum accuracy of just slightly less then what they currently have prone - when waiting loooong inbetween shots and even looooooonger after getting in postion (before the first shot)

But it would offer snipers basically endless spots to hide. Therefore in turn making it almost impossible to for the average infantry to find the hidden sniper.
And it can't be our goal that we NEED a well hidden sniper scanning all the windows for opossing snipers as the only means to get infantry across a bridge for example.

If snipers can only fire accuratly from prone it limits their hiding spaces. so a sniper can and will be found within a reasonable search time - and then be covered with loads of (inacurate at long range) fire. So he either moves, or picks off 1 or two enemys more and dies...

sure, it's still not realistic - but at least I think it could be fun, and feel better then our current snipers with their semi-auto assault rifels with scopes...
(which, btw. if I'm not completely mistaken the SVD actually is...)