Add Apache to Operation Archer

[waldo_ii]

map is TOOO SMALL

Why do you think they removed apache from Karbala?

Operation Archer is a 4km map, the same size as Kashan and Qinling.

[Scot]

I'm pretty sure its 2km. Does feel a lot bigger though.

[Celestial1]

Doing a search on the forums for Operation archer and going to the last page (2nd to last result) was the [Release] thread for Op Archer. Last post in the thread, by the author of the map, says it's a 2km map.

Sidenote: I never knew Archer was originally intended to be a MEC v US map. A lot has changed, not only the teams.

[Elektro]

Unless you give the apache as much health as the hueys, it would get rapped as soon as it spawned

[Rudd]

Why do you think they removed apache from Karbala?
HATs.

that was a silly thing to do imo

remove a teamwork orientated 2 player asset

replace with 2 solo LBs... fantastic.


I think Archer would benefit from APCs more than an attack chopper tbh, since they will be very vulnerable on Archer's roads. But they are effective in a local area.

[Outlawz7]

Operation Archer is a 4km map, the same size as Kashan and Qinling.

No, it isn't.
It's 2km, same as Fools Road, Muttrah, Kufrah...

[rampo]

Do the marines use apaches? I dont believe so but i wouldnt like having a cobra in it either cos i hate them pwning around in insurgency maps, btw it would be pwned after it spawned

[badmojo420]

Operation Archer is a 4km map, the same size as Kashan and Qinling.

I hope PARAMEDIC.CA sees that comment. It's a nice compliment for his hard work of making a 2km map seem like a 4km one.

On topic, i think the map works great the way it is. Not too hard for the coalition to win, and with the lack of cover, an attack helo would wipe the floor with those Taliban. It's bad enough if you get an organized group manning the Huey, with m249 in one door, HAT in the other.

[SkaterCrush]

Not too hard for the coalition to win

You serious? Its one of the hardest maps for a PUG to win on Insurgency. They need something or it will continue. I saw the suggestion about swapping a transport Huey for a gunship Huey, but I think it should be added instead.

Anyways its just another heli for insurgents to shoot down right?

[Spartan0189]

I'm pretty sure its 2km. Does feel a lot bigger though.

I'm with you on this statement, I believe it's from all the roads and curves and etc.

[TheOldBreed]

at the moment, for a Marine Corps team, an apache wouldn't be too fitting, although they may have had support from say, another branch. but as i've just learned its being switched to a canadian team (why), no idea what attack helicopter they'd have. you could chuck an apache in to say they got support from another branch or indeed another country.


....or you could just give em JDAMs to play around with. i prefer the latter

[Drunkenup]

I think the Hydra Huey is enough. On Muttrah, it is balanced with the Cobra because Opfor has tons of cover and stuff to hide in while the Cobra hunts for its prey. Archer is alot like a little Kashan, lots of open Desert etc, but unbalanced because it is small and you always have concentrated enemies at a base, etc, it is wide open, Enemies are very easy to spot. It would be a rapefest. A AH-6 or Hydra Huey is enough. (Kiowa Warrior is best for this job since Archer's BluFor main looks improvised and fit for Joint-Ops, but We don't have one yet!)

[badmojo420]

You serious? Its one of the hardest maps for a PUG to win on Insurgency. They need something or it will continue. I saw the suggestion about swapping a transport Huey for a gunship Huey, but I think it should be added instead.

Anyways its just another heli for insurgents to shoot down right?

True, it would be another(easier than huey, imo) helicopter to shoot down. And that would be a semi-good thing for the Taliban.

But, I disagree that Archer is hard to win on the blufor side. If anything a good US team will run circles around the Taliban. The huge open rolling hills, with no cover, are great for their scoped weapons and better vehicles. Add in some easy to defend elevated firing positions, some competent pilots and it's a breeze. The taliban are cut to pieces by snipers while they try to make their way from one cache to another. Forcing them to turtle on the caches which always ends with arty falling on their heads. I love archer, its one of the few maps that severely punishes lone wolfs or bad squads on the blufor and still gives a lot of flexibility to the Taliban. The intelligence is mostly just for confirmation. You'll encounter lots of enemy near the caches either way. It's all up to the coalition to make it happen or fail on archer.

And basically, if the blufor can't do it with Humvees and transport helicopters. An Apache is just going to give them an easy way out. The whole game, riding on who can camp the cache and provide the best laser target. I would say at least 85% of the current cache locations could be blown up by 1 hellfire, from higher than the SA7 would reach. It's just not the right asset for that map. And wouldn't promote teamwork between infantry squads like it does now.

i've just learned its being switched to a canadian team (why)

Because the mapper (Paramedic.ca) is Canadian and wants it that way. And (unless I've missed something that was posted)it's the ONLY map the CF are guaranteed to have in 0.9. You can't have a new faction without maps.

[Celestial1]

I think Archer would benefit from APCs more than an attack chopper tbh, since they will be very vulnerable on Archer's roads. But they are effective in a local area.

Agreed. Strykers or LAV-25s on the map would be a bonus, IMO, due to the added firesupport ability while still being just about as vulnerable as a humvee when it gets boxed in a bit.




Also, in regards to why the Canadians will become BluFor on Op Archer, it's because the CDF is actually involved in Operation Archer... USMC was just a placeholder.

Operation Archer is the Canadian Forces contribution to Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.

[fuzzhead]

Yup op archer always planned as a CF map, just the faction took longer than anticipated.

FYI the map was started by paramedic nearly 3 years ago

[Celestial1]

Yup op archer always planned as a CF map, just the faction took longer than anticipated.

FYI the map was started by paramedic nearly 3 years ago

And it was also planned to be a Blufor vs. MEC map, because insurgency wasn't around back then!

It looked so... strange. In a kinda good way. Supercow and all, and then having one huge cliff originally a US outpost.




I noticed that my earlier post mentioned bringing in stryker/LAV25, of course I managed to forget that the CF is replacing the USMC, so of course I actually meant the CF equivalents (LAV3, whatever else they've got in stock) Silly me.

[RHYS4190]

Stuff the apache / i got a better idea. and one that is not going to constantly dominate the map and anger a lot of people.

Just stick the black hawks back on the maps, Sure the Mini gun's are still not up to standard Realistically they still too nerf'd. they over heat to quick, they don't have near enough fire power as real life equivalents. Dylan mini gun can shot 4,000's a minute with out over heating. so do the math that like 60 to 70 rounds a second roughly.

meaning if you fire a one second burst at a target in RL. unlike in PR they will resemble mashed potato's.

But despite these short coming they are still powerful enough to be used against insurgents to a limited extent.

[SkaterCrush]

And Operation Archer is in Kandahar, which is where Canadian Forces are deployed. I'd rather have a Huey than a Blackhawk any day. The Huey is a smaller target, its easier to control and I think its more armoured. Even if its not I'd still rather have a gunship Huey than a Blackhawk.

[badmojo420]

Or better yet, a couple CH 146 Griffons, with door guns.