Automatic rifleman

[ralfidude]

HAAN4, the AR has that amazing capability to be a feared weapon... why not? It also has two deviation systems. One is the type that you have to lay down deployed and wait a few seconds to shoot. The other, which is not implemented AFAIK to other weapons either than the sniper gun, is that deviation goes up ALOT when you shoot and move the scope around.

In anycase, yes, its fairly accurate when all deviation is down. But thats the point of the gun. Its supposed to give ur squad a upper hand when your defending, or attacking. I even use it hip fired mode when clearing buildings, and its superb. I dont see a point on making this gun useless by creating more deviation, i really dont.

Its good now as it is.

[corp_calqluslethal]

Well, i think i know what your problem is. Is it your walking right into fire. Think of it this way. A guy has an ar. He just sitting waiting for someone to come into the area he's been scoping(hint the way to use this gun). Then you walk right into the area. Ocourse yea he's gonna kill as he would in real life. It is not gonna work if he drop downs right infront of your whole squad and kills you all unless you have really bad communication and most of your squad is a bunch of noobs. If you walk into the area he's already been waiting on you too, you just fell basically into a trap, good luck if you get out. And if you keep running into the same trap you showing you a nub. Its not the gun i think its maybe just you. All due respect cause i don't know but i have done it before and im not a nub, but i know when a player has just played better than me and know better not to blame it on the gun.

[Rudd]

This is my problem -


AR - You deploy and start firing before you are settled. The deviation still decreases

Any other rifle ingame - You stop and crouch, start firing before the rifle is settled. Deviation increases.

AR firing should produce More deviation not less.

[Cassius]

Overpowered ? I think not. It is very effective at its range. Too close and the turn speed will make it hard to engage troops with assault rifles. Too far and marksmen who have some cover have a good chance to take you out while your rounds bounce around him.

[Herbiie]

This is my problem -


AR - You deploy and start firing before you are settled. The deviation still decreases

Any other rifle ingame - You stop and crouch, start firing before the rifle is settled. Deviation increases.

AR firing should produce More deviation not less.

A Minimi LMG (SAW) and most other LMGs have a metal brace on the butt, you flick it up, put it on your shoulder, and press down on the weapon. This holds the weapon in place and decreases Recoil and makes it more accurate.

[Rudd]

A Minimi LMG (SAW) and most other LMGs have a metal brace on the butt, you flick it up, put it on your shoulder, and press down on the weapon. This holds the weapon in place and decreases Recoil and makes it more accurate.

I like accurate MGs

I don't like that MGs get more accurate desipite firing, unlike all the other rifles ingame.

[Rudd]

I don't see how it is actually. Deviation penality is present for assault rifles etc ingame whenever they shoot. Iirc you have to wait 1.5 seconds to avoid a cumulative deviation effect.

Now, I assumed this was part of the recoil simulation. What is it exactly, and what about it doesn't apply to LMGs?

[Nimise]

The thing that I think makes AR over powered is that they have really no weakness, at long ranges they are amazing, at medium ranges they are also pretty great, and at close ranges nothing can beat them. In .85 the ARs un-deployed had massive recoil making it hard to hit a guy even at 25M, but now in .86 I can mow a guy down at 100M+ in undeployed mode no problem. So at least increase the wait time for un-deployed mode(Its what .1 seconds now? )

[Herbiie]

I've always thought it was because the firing makes your hands shake (as well as moving up, apart from not with LMGs) so it sprays more, and in deployed mode the bi-pod stop that.

I think you should only be able to deploy when prone, and can aim normally when undeployed. Why does not having the Bi Pod down affect your ability to look down the site? :S SAWs aren't heavy so you don't need a Bi Pod to hold one into your shoulder... When undeployed the deviation goes up after each shot, but when deployed the deviation stays the same, although is alot higher for the first 5 seconds, as long as you are not firing.

[Tim270]

Every weapon has it's place, MG is hindered in close quarters and is more about area denial than fast assaulting.

It is possibly the best kit to have in close quarters, I can just walk around a corner firing and because it has such a high rate of fire (and accuracy/low recoil) I will hit cover all around players and 'suppress' them i.e blinding them.

The thing I dont like about the AR's (saw) now is they dont suppress, they kill. I used to use them all the time before the patch and they were much more effective at suppressive fire then they are now. Now imo they are better as an offensive weapon allowing people to simply camp and pick off players, rather than having to use squad leaders markers and have your fire directed to suppress.

Essentially what im saying is the weapon is no longer used for support fire, but as another weapon just for killing now. Its just too easy on Asad with that thing now.

[Redamare]

it is a little too over powering ... true but i think its a a good balance

[Tim270]

.Tim270, since when a weapon isn't something you kill with? It HAS TO KILL. What's the point of it then? No one is going to stay in cover if the weapon is useless for killing... That means no suppression.

The point I was trying to make that its used more like a marksman now rather than an MG, but then again, maybe thats how its intended to be used now.

[ralfidude]

Oh and one thing HAAN4 i forgot to mention. You playing as of .85 makes you still greatly inexperienced.

The rest of us have been loyal from 0.3 and on. We have seen the immense progress and let me tell you, im STILL learning new things from time to time.

[HAAN4]

The thing that I think makes AR over powered is that they have really no weakness, at long ranges they are amazing, at medium ranges they are also pretty great, and at close ranges nothing can beat them. In .85 the ARs un-deployed had massive recoil making it hard to hit a guy even at 25M, but now in .86 I can mow a guy down at 100M+ in undeployed mode no problem. So at least increase the wait time for un-deployed mode(Its what .1 seconds now? )

Well considering, that this topic has Enlighthed. quite.

i will return to disucss.

this is one of the questions. AR actuly have a weakness?

i can say that Assault rifles in BF2 have more Recoil that a stand up AR while moving, (at last in 3 nunber tipe).

i belive that AR recoil sistem in 0.85 has be far more realistic. because realy there will be a good reason to people still wear Assault rifles. because USA have the money and the industrial power to give a SAW to everone, but why it does't?

why still autmost people whering M4 assault rifles?

because you can shoot when you stand up, LMG can only be fired from prone.

And yet. i can use 3, to assault people, just like a SMG!,,, the recoil is lesses that a assauth rifle in full auto. BELIVE IN MY!.

The AR is truly whichout the aspects of wekeness, of lower mobility, no assault capability, no Abush reation, this are the main wekness of a AR kit. and yet not all soldirs are RAMBO.

trust my.

Oh and one thing HAAN4 i forgot to mention. You playing as of .85 makes you still greatly inexperienced.

The rest of us have been loyal from 0.3 and on. We have seen the immense progress and let me tell you, im STILL learning new things from time to time

yet, i belive thats you see this like a immense progress, because it's is alowerd to be spawend on rally points, this give other aspect of tatics on PR. but trust my, this AR is overpowerd,

autmost people how suport the ideia to keep this sistem working, has be AR fan players, that are far away to give his caddy up.

that's is the reality dude. and you call my a noob! most of all, and better admit that you are talking my like a noob.

I guess you don't like to change because to you is fine, kiling autmost entire squads like to be something real normal, just because you got a AR. dont mean you kill easy a squad.

The point I was trying to make that its used more like a marksman now rather than an MG, but then again, maybe thats how its intended to be used now.

people don't has realy used AR kits in past, because you must have a suply crate placed there.

this is my matter. just make AR kits like 0.85, but allow to spawn on Rally points,

this is my opnion, but what is realy the point, is that AR is overpowerd, for alot of questions, posted by alot of people, and not just my,

and all guys how say no, are AR FAN PLAYERS, that will not allow that changes, because this will Unbenefith they. this is the true.

[ralfidude]

I am deeply confuse HAAN4.... You say its deeply overpowered, and then i get the hint ur saying it has its weakness that u cant use it as an assault rifle.

I think the language barrier is making us not understand you.


But let me just review something.

The AR kit is a very powerful and very accurate weapon right now, and yes, we all know that. We acknowledge it, and some of us like it, and some of us dont.


For the most part, the people who DONT like it, are the people getting killed by it.
Usually, THOSE people are the ones who have NO experience in PR and tend to run around in the open, or without cover, and get gunned down by an AR whos actually covering that street.

Right there, let me tell you that, if the AR was running, and saw you, he would have to stop, lay down, deploy gun (if not done so already) wait a few seconds, then fire.

If, YOU are using right tactic, by the time hes ready to shoot, you should be in cover. That cant be true all the time, but for the most part, thats the truth.

IF the AR kit guy is FAR away, he will definitely not be able to lay down, deploy, and start shooting right away and be able to hit you right away as you say. Yes, while he keeps his trigger down his accuracy will increase, but because he is far away, it will take some time before those bullets go anywhere near you. At which point ur teamates should have already started to engage him by then, assuming ur squad actually knows what they are doing.

Now, if the AR guy is CLOSE.... well... he will definitely get you. No arguing that point at all is there?

If the AR guy was already deployed and hits you and kills you right away as soon as you turn the corner, well.. he was covering his sector. Good job to the AR guy. But its also an incentive to you. IF the guy was payign so much attention to stop you with that gun there, there must be something of value for him to defend there. Its almost always a dead giveaway of something. An enemy squad position, a rally, a FB, wtvr. Point is, it works both ways.


Its not so much about getting the kills as it is putting fear out there. When i have the AR, i use it as a cover weapon for my squad, or as a defensive gun for a position.

If my squad is attacking, i sit back, and deploy, get deviation down, and wait. The second theres a threat, i cover my team. Its VERY effective if used right.

If i use it as a defensive measure, persay in Insurgency, then, if you are being outflanked, or a technical is coming at you or whatever the dire situation may be, that AR kit will put down some SERIOUS firepower that will enable your squad to evac fast. I have done so for my squad plenty of times. It has seriously affected gameplay as far as im concerned for the better.

Next time you walk down the street, and hear a auto rifleman, you will definitely make sure to check ur corners now wont you? Shouldnt you be doing that already anyway? Yes, so it has improved gameplay. At least from a tactical point of view.

Now, as far as why dont all soldiers get ARs? Well, its heavy... heavy as hell. You cant assault with a weapon like that. Room clearing would take forever. But you CAN assault a house hipfiring with it... it would be VERY effective due to the close range, and firing rate. The thing that bogs it down as a room clearing weapon is that you wouldnt be able to move it about as fast as a M16, which is preferred in those situations.

But what is stopping a man from hitting you if he is hipfiring a SAW at close range? I dont see why you are arguing this point at all. It is possible. Not practical, but very possible.

Also, HAAN4, please dont misquote me and misunderstand. I never, at any point called you a noob. Iv grown tired of that word beyond belief. I simply said, that you cant be taken seriously if you say ur experienced if you just joined from 0.85. Thats all i meant. You have "some" experience. Just not enough to give you bragging credentials.


Can anybody decipher what he meant here? ->(The AR is truly whichout the aspects of wekeness, of lower mobility, no assault capability, no Abush reation, this are the main wekness of a AR kit. and yet not all soldirs are RAMBO.)