New way to set RP's

[fubar++]

Suggestion for some changes to be made to the present Rally Point system. Some of these has been discussed before.

First of all the RP spawn should be removed. It doesn't come any surprise that some are for it and some are against, as it is mostly matter of personal preference. For me and those who would like it to be removed the major concern has usually been the unrealism of respawning. Of course it is unrealistic no matter where it happens. But if you think it as reinforcement of troops by the logistic chain, it makes the system somewhat sensible.

What you have at RP is simply a point to rally, hence the name. Because of the overall ability to respawn and map wide communication, most times the rallying for sake of rallying doesn't make much sense, and therefore there should be given some game-wise bonus to do so.

So second part would be to make it narrowly limited and slowly resupplying ammo supply point, where you could for instance get more bandages, one or two LAT rounds and such before it would drain empty.

Third part there should be some limits to prevent abusing the system:

1) Squad Leader should "carry" and "drop" the RP. Squad Leader would have one RP at start of spawn and for extra RP's he would need to resupply them from a crate. The allowed maximum to carry would always be one RP at the time and he would also need an extra soldier(s) to carry it (for an extra ammunition and such), just like it is now. And/Or,

2) After a time limit Squad Leader could resupply a new RP from the old RP if it still exists. And/Or,

3) There should be strict time limit how often Squad Leader can set a new RP.

[myles]

ye good idea so SLS use the RPs more tactcilly.

[Brummy]

So basically the RP becomes a ammo supply which almost nobody will use?

[fubar++]

So basically the RP becomes a ammo supply which almost nobody will use?

Hmm, I didn't came to think about that... )

It's kind of logical consequence, but certainly a problem.

Could remove all the RP icons from the map so your squad would need to remember where it is, like it is IRL. Of course it wouldn't prevent using it if found by teammates, but that would be one more reason to hide it well... Can't think any other solution to that problem for now...

Edit:
By rereading your post, if you really mean nobody, I don't think it would be the case. I'm sure there would be need for extra ammo in lots of circumstances and being able to move it by foot (as a squad).

[Tartantyco]

-Considering the pub gameplay I'm not sure people would be able to function properly anymore (oh noes, walking!), but I think that a hardcore game mode without spawn points outside of main, switching the RP to an ammo dump and having firebases for emplacements only, would be awesomesauce.

[<<SpanishSurfer>>]

Eliminate the RP? You guys must LOVE to walk around for 10 min before getting into a fire fight.

No thanks to the idea...

Personally the only thing I want to see change with the RP is the automatic destruction of it when an enemy walks by it. Bring back the need to knife the thing!

[arjan]

Eliminate the RP? You guys must LOVE to walk around for 10 min before getting into a fire fight.

No thanks to the idea...

Personally the only thing I want to see change with the RP is the automatic destruction of it when an enemy walks by it. Bring back the need to knife the thing!

agree!, that was fun looking for rallypoints or havin to light them up from range.

[Herbiie]

Erm ok - so how is your squad supposed to operate?

Try being Infantry on Qinling only spawning at firebases... you must enjoy walking 3km before beign able to play the game..

The diea of niot allowing you to spawn at Rally Points is ridiculous...

tbh some SLs don't set Rallys enough - why limit it? I never knew there was a limit to how long it takes for troops to dump their rucksacks somewhere.

[Tartantyco]

-It's called logistics people, use it.

[LithiumFox]

Suggestion for some changes to be made to the present Rally Point system. Some of these has been discussed before.

First of all the RP spawn should be removed. It doesn't come any surprise that some are for it and some are against, as it is mostly matter of personal preference. For me and those who would like it to be removed the major concern has usually been the unrealism of respawning. Of course it is unrealistic no matter where it happens. But if you think it as reinforcement of troops by the logistic chain, it makes the system somewhat sensible.

What you have at RP is simply a point to rally, hence the name. Because of the overall ability to respawn and map wide communication, most times the rallying for sake of rallying doesn't make much sense, and therefore there should be given some game-wise bonus to do so.

So second part would be to make it narrowly limited and slowly resupplying ammo supply point, where you could for instance get more bandages, one or two LAT rounds and such before it would drain empty.

Third part there should be some limits to prevent abusing the system:

1) Squad Leader should "carry" and "drop" the RP. Squad Leader would have one RP at start of spawn and for extra RP's he would need to resupply them from a crate. The allowed maximum to carry would always be one RP at the time and he would also need an extra soldier(s) to carry it (for an extra ammunition and such), just like it is now. And/Or,

2) After a time limit Squad Leader could resupply a new RP from the old RP if it still exists. And/Or,

3) There should be strict time limit how often Squad Leader can set a new RP.

Why not just give everone a single life for the entire round and call it "realistic"


Besides, the new RP's system is fine. You can't stick it too close to the battle, just semi-close. While this system would be fine for something like, say, the PRT, it just wouldn't work for regular Pubbies. Sorry to say.

The great part of the Army is their ability to mobilize and have 2908390580895 BILLION vehicles out on the planet at once. o.O we get about... 15. Including jets. What happens when all our transport explodes? You have to walk. It takes about 9 minutes to walk halfway across the map. In those 9 minutes the other team can make barriers and bunkers and missles and HMG's in about 2 minutes if they work hard enough. They can then send scouts up to the top of a hill in about 1 1/2 minutes. So by the time you get ANYWHERE, they know where you are, and with ticket bleed, you can fail epically all because of a single mistake.

It would make sense in a tournament-like atmosphere, but in public play it it would be too difficult.

Then people will want to get rid of FOB's because spawning in the middle of a forest "isn't realistic"

then they'll wanna get rid of spawning in general cause "you only get one life in real life."

=/

Edit: I wouldn't mind it as much if we were playing say... Arma 2... but the maps on PR arnt as pretty as ARMA 2's... No offense.... > > at least i could look at the scenery while bored out of my mind.. XD

[goguapsy]

Leave the RPs. People die in this game. But it's a game!
Let's take a look this way: if it was ARMA 2, I wouldn't care to move a lot (they have moving spawn points BTW). The game speed is faster (you can walk, run and sprint).

If you wanna make the game realistic, first you should have a mandatory training for piloting helicopters, and an exam to see if you can really fly. This exam should also be provided IN-GAME.
Second, eliminate all lag-related issues (which can cause a chopper to easily get destroyed).
Third, encourage transport teamwork. It isn't always that an APC won't give you a lift in pub servers.


Obviously all of this is hardcoded.
So leave the RPs for the sake of gameplay. If you lose your rally is your SLs fault anyways. Rally Points are just a closer spawn to the action, which can be walked all the way, while if you spawn in main you can rarely walk to the action in time-manners (typo?).


If you want to make this kind of stuff, make to that 16 slots kind of map (which is normally used by clans).



Otherwise make the rally point. Who would walk all the way to the rally after spawning at the main base, specially due to the fact that the squad would move away from it (just as it does now). It's just easier to walk straight. And if your SL dies, just setup another bloody rally!


Final words. Leave the rally for 16+slots servers. It's a gameplay issue.

[x-spades-x]

i understand the sake of realism, but in reality its still a video game, if you really want to, you might want to implement the time it takes to get the vehicles ready, the driver to do a complete before OPS PMCS of his vehicle, time to set up COMMS, and deal with the problems that pop up at the time, it can take 20min-1hr to get a convoy mission ready sometimes. all depends on how things go. i work for the real army and i dont want to come home and deal with the same stupidity i do at work. i think the games system is fine how it is. theres a reason many people pick PR over ARMA I/II, its something i can come home, and just play... why waste the little bit of time i get to game, on ruck marching across a desert, after i do it at work.

[HAAN4]

the rally point, for my is quite fine, but it could be evem more.

since rally points are quite weak, and easy to fall... but well, good for making a constant atact of infatry.

i can only say i prefer to have rally point, that's nees 2 guys to able to respawn, but can be only down by knife insteand of this UNREALISTC rally point down, this realy encourage retreating tatics, has well replacing losses mens.

of course rally points will gotta to still down if they created when enemy is nearby, but you can just program it whicht a some couldown, that when take up you can just

i have heard this sugestions a for a while, a kind of slovacic comrade. i don,t remmenber he's nickname, but he,s speaked one of the best sugestions ever.

true. our rally point sistem is very unrealistic, both in hes weakness, has well he,s utilitys.

but trust my, DONT REMOVE HE COMPLETY.

thanks!

[myles]

the rally point, for my is quite fine, but it could be evem more.

since rally points are quite weak, and easy to fall... but well, good for making a constant atact of infatry.

i can only say i prefer to have rally point, that's nees 2 guys to able to respawn, but can be only down by knife insteand of this UNREALISTC rally point down, this realy encourage retreating tatics, has well replacing losses mens.

of course rally points will gotta to still down if they created when enemy is nearby, but you can just program it whicht a some couldown, that when take up you can just

i have heard this sugestions a for a while, a kind of slovacic comrade. i don,t remmenber he's nickname, but he,s speaked one of the best sugestions ever.

true. our rally point sistem is very unrealistic, both in hes weakness, has well he,s utilitys.

but trust my, DONT REMOVE HE COMPLETY.

thanks!

HAAN mate i only understood thanks. maybe try this when you want to post. Use an online translator by putting what you want to say in portugeses and copying and pasting the english part.

[Herbiie]

the rally point, for my is quite fine, but it could be evem more.

since rally points are quite weak, and easy to fall... but well, good for making a constant atact of infatry.

i can only say i prefer to have rally point, that's nees 2 guys to able to respawn, but can be only down by knife insteand of this UNREALISTC rally point down, this realy encourage retreating tatics, has well replacing losses mens.

of course rally points will gotta to still down if they created when enemy is nearby, but you can just program it whicht a some couldown, that when take up you can just

i have heard this sugestions a for a while, a kind of slovacic comrade. i don,t remmenber he's nickname, but he,s speaked one of the best sugestions ever.

true. our rally point sistem is very unrealistic, both in hes weakness, has well he,s utilitys.

but trust my, DONT REMOVE HE COMPLETY.

thanks!

In Better English: (To try and help out, no offence meant, and only as I understand it
The Rally point is fine, but it could be so much more.
The rally points are weak and easy to overrun ... but, well, it's good for making a constant infantry attack.
I can only say that I prefer to have rally points - that can only be taken down by a knife instead of this UNREALISTIC rally overrun system which only really encourages retreating tactics, as well as replacing lost men.
Of course rally points have still got to go down if if they are created with an enemy nearby, but could you just programme it with a countdown or something? and when it's finished you can just (Ermm I don't think he finished this bit - too hard for me >.<)

I have heard suggestions like this for a while, there was a kind of Slavic comrade, I don't remember his user name, but he gave one of the best suggestions ever.

True. Our rally point system is very unrealistic. But it has both it's weaknesses, and it's strengths.

But trust me - do not remove it!

Thanks.

Aaaanndd collapse into a pool of bubbling goo - gawd I wish i were cleverer. If there are any mistakes I apologise - just trying to help out.

[ralfidude]

Isnt there a slight problem with removing the RP?

On a city such as Muttrah or Op Barracuda, imagine all transport is wiped out... What is everybody supposed to do? Chill for 20 minutes? I dont think anybody would stick around for that, and swimming alone would take 20 minutes.



EDIT: HAAN4, you do know why the rally point gets overrun when enemies are close to it right? There is logic behind that.

[Bringerof_D]

how about this, instead of makign such a drastic change to a system that many love now and pissing them off (i'm personally kinda split on the decision, i dont want it gone but i can see reasons why it needs to go)

how about this, as a RALLY point, it requires at least 2 squad members near by within X meters and no enemies within said range for people to spawn in thus simulating a "regrouping" or "rallying" of troops. in turn you can start getting ammunition from them again (small arms only) i mean who knew a pile of backpacks didn't have ANYTHING useful in them? in this way we can simulate surviving squad members falling back to the rally point to call for reinforcements and supplies. no kit requesting still, if you didn't bring it with you, you sure as hell didn't put it in the pile. make it knife destroy again in this case, it being "over run" in the current system would be annoying and at the moment discourages placing them in good strategic locations since enemies will likely choose similar positions and this making them too easily over run.

[ralfidude]

We HAD it so it was 2 people minimum, but apparently that got scratched and its not to 1 person near you to put RP. Also, ul notice if you place a RP now near enemies, it gets overrun within 3-4 seconds. Getting at least patches wold be nice from RPs, but that brings on a whole new issue with medics not being needed... soooo... ammo at least?

[Bringerof_D]

We HAD it so it was 2 people minimum, but apparently that got scratched and its not to 1 person near you to put RP. Also, ul notice if you place a RP now near enemies, it gets overrun within 3-4 seconds. Getting at least patches wold be nice from RPs, but that brings on a whole new issue with medics not being needed... soooo... ammo at least?

i think you misunderstood, i dont mean a minimum to "place" the RP, i mean keep that the way it is, but now no spawn on rally, unless there are 2 friendlies and no hostiles within range of the rally

[fubar++]

Anyone remembers Battlefield 1942? Or Desert Combat? The original game and the mod which are the foundation of BF2? There weren't rally points, neither squad leader spawns. Of course those were whole lot different games than PR with much faster vehicle spawns for instance.

I do understand the benefits of RP spawning for the sake of the gameplay. But at the same time it takes something away from the game, it is like it has gone too much squad and not team oriented. One example are the abandoned firebases, and in a way also the abandoned vehicles. If you just think the respawning as reinforcement, you can see it makes sense to respawn in the base and somewhat at the firebase, but at RP... not so much anymore.

But of course, the idea to remove the RP's (as a spawn point) isn't perfect, you gain something and loose something else from the other end. I would be happy to take the extra ammo instead, some of you wouldn't, and both sides have their point.