Completely Removing the map with friendly positions for infantry

[McBumLuv]

Just wanted to bump this topic again, for two reasons:

1) I really believe a discussion on eliminating 3d map markers should take place.

2) I was pretty sure infantry markers could be changed for good reason, and I remember now. FH2's managed to change them. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa39 ... -53-95.jpg, not the best pic, but you can see the different infantry markers in the top-right).

Discuss.

[Rudd]

well PR did change their icons a while ago, iirc they had a kind of directionality to tehm before they were changed. Either that or I'm dreaming up stuff again.

But I agree with you McLuv.

[badmojo420]

1. Is there any way to mark you compass? Like a coloured line in the direction of your marker. And then remove the 3d marker. Keep it on the map, and still let squad leaders place them while playing, but just not be visible.

2. Like Rudd said, they changed the marker in .85 to a dot instead of an arrow. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread had something to do with that. What exactly were you thinking about with regards to changing them?

[sparks50]

A lot of great ideas in this thread!

[McBumLuv]

1. Is there any way to mark you compass? Like a coloured line in the direction of your marker. And then remove the 3d marker. Keep it on the map, and still let squad leaders place them while playing, but just not be visible.

2. Like Rudd said, they changed the marker in .85 to a dot instead of an arrow. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread had something to do with that. What exactly were you thinking about with regards to changing them?

I don't know about the first one, but as for the second one, I'm expecting to completely remove non-SL infantry markers from the map, though hopefully not squad infantry markers (the green guys) if only to provide the SL with better squad cohesion.

My comment about infantry markers was mainly based on Fuzzhead's comment:

If it was easily possible, this would have already be in.

The problem is that its difficult to give one player a map (squad leader) and others none (squad member/lone wolf).

Also the problem with changing infantry markings is very hardcoded.

So I'm not completely sure what they did to change in FH2, or which marker was changed, but I'd have to look into it really.

SL 3d markers have really been bothering me. They reduce the need for communication and the use of other equipment such as smoke, which can be used to mark friendly positions, bearings for attack runs, landing zones, and a multitude of other uses not actually done ingame yet. They also make it possible to have a squad operate separatedly, because when you engage or spot a contact, you don't need to use communication and stay within the same area to get the proper bearings, all you need is a magical marker to guide anyone from anywhere to the target.

[Chuc]

Oh its perfectly possible to change them, make them invisible in fact.

Problem there is that there is no distinction between players in your own squad and those outside of it.

[Tarantula]

You should make it so that all inf markers are taken out apart from SL numbers which are repalaced with NATO inf squad markers with the number of teh squad it is corresponding to above it. Meaning SL's and Comms could still coordinate also encouraging squads to stay together. My 2 cents.

[fuzzhead]

I have an idea to remove all the "live" markings on the map, and SL can put down a marker to show where his squad is by reporting in via "T" commo rose.

Problem arises with vehicles, as these all should still keep their markings, but I think if we make infantry invisible that the vehicles go invisible too

But ya, I totally agree with removing all the LIVE markings on the map, this WOULD have made the CO position much more useful. Unfortunately we got fuked by the 1.5 patch and CO marking system has been nerfed

Personally I would combine this change as well as RP spawn removal, and the inclusion of all the current WIP 4km maps, and we would see a huge shift in gameplay for PR Of course, there is so much politics involved in making these changes and getting everyone to agree with them (the dev team and the public), but personally I think it would make the mod even more kickass and elevate gameplay to next level of immersion

[Alex6714]

Problem arises with vehicles, as these all should still keep their markings, but I think if we make infantry invisible that the vehicles go invisible too

Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the infantry specific circle texture could be made into a totally transparent "nothing" texture, which wouldn´t affect the vehicles?

[Tartantyco]

-Point of concern: Admining. It's hard admining a server when you don't know who's doing what...

[Michael_Denmark]

I see many Pros with this inclusion:

• The need to use landmarks to know where you're going and not get lost.
• The need to correctly ID targets through their uniforms before firing.
• A heavier reliance of the commander to give friendly positions.
• Another advantage to having a commander, because of an all-revealing map.
• A more in-depth playing experience.
• An expanded hierarchy providing each higher level (SM, SL, Commander) with better tools to be situationally aware. (from no map, to topographical map, to satellite map with friendly positions).
• Makes the commander useful, as he can keep his job, but is the only one aware of all the battlefield intel. He can now be used to coordinate the squads properly, since they'll need to rely on him.

A few potential problems exist, however, including:

• How would infantry know where to attack/defend?

Answer could be the AOR system. Its a solid game-proofen system, that explicit inform the units what to do, where to do it and locations of friendlies too. Its a simple system. It doesn't necessarily require programming at all, only communication procedures, thus a thread in the forums.

I designed the system so it could be played even blind (offline).

Thus a few times in the tournament i have commanded a team in a round when being offline, using a printed map with the AOR borders and their zones with their respective units drawn up.

It does however require a lot of training to use it succesfully as such - especially when attacking - but it is absolutly a possibility for all levels to use in the game.

I know im biased about it, but as said i have used it on all levels on a PR team.

It works.

[Tarantula]

Fuzzhead's idea (pg17) is the best imo, i would love to see that implemented.

[ralfidude]

Id be on board with Michael. I seriously thought of doing that myself. There was a clan i was in where i had a higher up rank, and i was going to suggest printing out those maps, more blown out, and adding in street names, or changing the grid system to make the points even more accurate. All team members would just need to print it out and have it on their desk.


EDIT: Fuzzheads idea is also great, but the concern of admining thats been brought up does get very funky....Lord only knows how many douches will take advantage of that system if implemented.

[Psyko]

I have an idea to remove all the "live" markings on the map, and SL can put down a marker to show where his squad is by reporting in via "T" commo rose.

Problem arises with vehicles, as these all should still keep their markings, but I think if we make infantry invisible that the vehicles go invisible too

But ya, I totally agree with removing all the LIVE markings on the map, this WOULD have made the CO position much more useful. Unfortunately we got fuked by the 1.5 patch and CO marking system has been nerfed

Personally I would combine this change as well as RP spawn removal, and the inclusion of all the current WIP 4km maps, and we would see a huge shift in gameplay for PR Of course, there is so much politics involved in making these changes and getting everyone to agree with them (the dev team and the public), but personally I think it would make the mod even more kickass and elevate gameplay to next level of immersion

i would'nt remove rally spawn completely. First off the "overrun" thing just doesnt feel right. secondly, i would only allow squad members to spawn on the rally if they had done somthing worth while to deserve it. like within a life you have to make a certain amount of points or your *** is going back to main.

three other things. i think the live markers should be removed.
i think the name tags above people's heads should appear at a closer range and take longer to show up.
and i think the squad leader markers should be removed completely. they suck.

[badmojo420]

With regards to admin duties becoming more difficult. If that type of system was implemented, and the commander retains his view of everyone, then the admin could communicate with or be the commander to solve any problems. I know it's not an ideal solution, but it's a solution.

As for the player markers. As i've come to understand the system, there are the black outlines, and then there are the coloured markers. They are combined to make the blue circle with black outline. The problem being that if we make the blue transparent, there will still be black outlines running around the map. Or when a blue player gets into a vehicle, it wouldn't be a colour, just the outline.

So, what if we remove the circle icons(infantry) and the blue. Leaving only green circles, with no outline. (tho this could be hard coded to have a colour with no outline) And keeping the outlines for the vehicles. That way, you could still have the commander position with a view of everyone, the only difference is he would have to click on the different squads to turn their icons green, in order to see their locations. Vehicles would be visible to everyone, and every infantry soldier would be able to tell between other squads vehicles (just a black outline, no colour) and their own squads vehicles.(like they are now)

[McBumLuv]

Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the infantry specific circle texture could be made into a totally transparent "nothing" texture, which wouldn´t affect the vehicles?

I was thinking along those lines, or more so, couldn't you make the blue infantry markers completely transparent, but retain the green ones?

and i think the squad leader markers should be removed completely. they suck.

Yes, yes they do. Their removal is an event that is late in coming, but should come around by 0.9.

[=Romagnolo=]

Yes, yes they do. Their removal is an event that is late in coming, but should come around by 0.9.

I don't think so, I use it to point my squad members whey should they go or get position, like me pointing with my arm.

Imagine this situation "move there" "there where ?!?" "there!" Kind sux, eh ? So with the marker I can say "move there" *move to this position* "okey, on the way".

[McBumLuv]

I don't think so, I use it to point my squad members whey should they go or get position, like me pointing with my arm.

Imagine this situation "move there" "there where ?!?" "there!" Kind sux, eh ? So with the marker I can say "move there" *move to this position* "okey, on the way".

Not really, because it would still be on the map, and if they are within distance to see you point your arm IRL, they'll be within distance to see you point your weapon at the intended target.

I'm not saying take it off the map (though take the line pointing you in the direction kinda sux), but the little marker in the HUD acting as a virtual landmark makes communication not a necessity.

[=Romagnolo=]

You have a good point.

Removing or changing the map and mark systens is a very important change to do in PR. After the deviation, of course, but let this subject to another topic.

[Elektro]

If you could make the Commander place markers for friendlies as he currently can place them for enemy units you wont feel any difference