Snipeing in PR...

[APoutwest]

Hey my first thread and I know it seems kinda jerkish to start off with critcism but I promise i'm only doing because I'm having an awsome time with PR.

My issue with snipeing in the game is how as a sniper I can be prone aiming at a far of target, lock him into my crosshairs pause and fire and.... miss. I understand that guns in real life dont have the insane accuracy of BF2 sniper rifles but the way that the innacuracy is implamented means I can do nothing about it. Is there any way that scope wobble can be made part of the game so aiming would be harder but where you aim your bullet hits?

[RikiRude]

nope, sadly its not possible with Bf2s engine, all there is is the random deviation.

[brokencrow]

First off, A1 mod. I love it.

I know the sniping is not your doing but it has been naff since the original BF. The "lottery" system that is in place now is one of the major reasons I didnt like BF2 (Original). It seems to be like this with all the weapons but it shows the most with the Sniper rifles. Hopefully DICE will do away with it in the new BF engine.

[Rhino]

the problem then is every one would play sniper, and PR will just come a sniper war. Snipers are not very realistic on a battefield to be frank, and what we are really aiming for is squad work and not a lone wolf sniper sitting under a bush snipeing every one for a whole game.

[duckhunt]

I dont think making snipers accurate will draw people away from other classes, players will always love to be in an assaulting squad using non sniper kits. But now there is no point playing sniper (for me atleast) because of the reasons mentioned above.

[brokencrow]

Point taken, but you could just have class limits and only allow one Sniper per team. I know its not all about sniping and I rarely play a sniper. But it would be nice to have proper sniping on the big maps where it could actually make a difference instead of continually firing spoilers.

S

[ghosty]

Rhino']the problem then is every one would play sniper, and PR will just come a sniper war. Snipers are not very realistic on a battefield to be frank, and what we are really aiming for is squad work and not a lone wolf sniper sitting under a bush snipeing every one for a whole game.

Um I think your wrong, every group that I have been with has had a sniper attached to it. Sure have a sniper dead acturate would be crazy but if you want realism snipers dont miss. In real life a squad defeates a sniper by working as a team. This would only make PR better if the guns were acurate as possible... then it would make you think about running out into the open and tactics would be a major part of play.

Ok so you hava a sniper at the top of the crane... Squad leader would identify him and the others would take him out. On our squad I always have an extra heavy because its just as acurate as a sniper rifle with a hell of a punch.

Change the acuracy of the sniper rifle and I believe it will make PR game play better. Alot of noobs would die... not becuase they are getting shot from snippers but becuase they chose to be a sniper. This would tone done the heavy as well. And rhino im not trying to pick a fight with ya I just dissagree with you.

[brokencrow]

Yah, I have to agree with the above, properly implemented, Snipers are very complementary to this type of game. They should either be done properly or not included at all. They really are naff in BF2. They have been ever since the beginning. There is pretty much no point to them at all. Invariably your first shot is a spoiler even though the Crosshairs are directly over your opponents head.

DICE needs to implement proper ballistics for weapons. Not this "lottery" system. Its such a shame because PRMM looks and plays great but there are many times when I feel robbed by "lottery" ballistics.

BC

[Umbrae]

Rhino']the problem then is every one would play sniper, and PR will just come a sniper war. Snipers are not very realistic on a battefield to be frank, and what we are really aiming for is squad work and not a lone wolf sniper sitting under a bush snipeing every one for a whole game.

Not every one would play a sniper. Snipers still have quite strong limitations. They have a slow rate of fire. if 2 people know where you are they can easly kill you working togeather. Unless you use tatics. . . which hiding under a bush may be, but it is a rather silly one. If you tr to hide for a whole game in one spot I would love to play with you. Snipers like that are fun to kill, any class should easly be able to, with a knife if your decent.

Better tactics involve defending stratigic locations where you can easly ambush people. Defending flags or resources comes to mind. On push style maps this is of little effect. but for standard conquest it is quite a good way not to end up with only a single flag. 1 sniper defending a flag, even on large maps if you controll most flags leaves a large fighting force to recon with. Which should thin out most of the enemy to a trickle. . . Squad leaders of course give you an option to resupply troops without having a flag in the area.

Also they work good for assulting AS a team. Thier are several ways to do it, but that is not the point of this discusion.

If I might propose a few ideas and how/why I think they would balance the sniper class. Ideas I also think are possible in the BF2 engine.

The slow rate of fire snipers have is usualy not due to reloading, but actual aiming. Real life snipers need a proper position to fire thier weapon from. Which often varries due to the cover they have, and the angle they need. Sitting, standing, prone, crouching are all done with pin point accuracy, but it often takes some time to steady your self, ajust sights for range ect. Now to simulate this in the BF2 engine I propose if possible giving snipers xhairs back. Now I would say put them in another part of the screen, so they are not actualy used for "aiming" so much as to just see how much time you will need at your current range to have a chance of hitting your target.
Increase the "steady" spead of the weapon. Say 3 seconds when prone. 5 when crouched, 8 when standing.
After the steadying time the rifle will be basicly pin point accurate up to the current eye sight range in bf2. Of course all movement will have an effect on your "aim" as it does with all weapons. But beeing able to see how moving effects your aim will give you the ability to lead targets for that 1 shot you need. Yet when walking you would be better off using your knife if your pistol is empty.

Now these next to ideas I am not exactly sure if they are possible in the BF2 engine, but it would be nice.

Snipers are usualy given high priority targets. Indeed they are the best equiped to judge who is who among the enemy under normal circumstances. I would suggest giving them the ability to see squad leaders in the enemy.

Finaly, the ranges we are dealing with for snipers in BF2 are rather slim. They truly become effective at about the range you cannot see any more. I would recomend if possible, put the fog range at 1.5 times normal though a sniper scope.
If indeed both are possible I would recomed using both, but only at the same time. Thus a sniper can only see a squad leader via his scope.

[SilvuR]

I believe that the current implementation of the Sniper (particularly the USMC sniper) promotes lone wolfing. Mainly for the fact that most squad leaders(mainly the PRMM guys =\ ) will not allow snipers in thier squads.

I remember when PRMM was first released and the Sniper indeed was the class to whore for easy points, however PRMM has changed and this would no longer be the case in my opinion. Almost all of the weapons aside from the pistols and SMGs are just as accurate as the sniper rifles at this point. Hell, it would make much more sense to lower the M24s damage to 2 shot kills (and 1 shot kill headshots of course) and buff up the accuracy to atleast post 1.2 vBF2. At its current status it is laughable to even include such a weapon as the M24 in a "reality" themed mod.

[[ROC]Loser]

then...
increase the accuracy of the sniper for each patch and,
limit the numbers of snipers in a team.... (reduce the number of sniper for each patch)

IMO, there shouldn't be more than 3 snipers in a team...
(since there are 3 squads in a team in average)

[00SoldierofFortune00]

If you can't hit anything with a sniper in this game, then that is kind of sad IMO. Dice already noobed down the sniper to a low level in vanilla by taking out bullet drop, and now new people to this mod already want to up the sniper's capabilities. I have been playing on teams with half snipers sometimes, and it is really getting rediculas, especially on the US side. The sniper is a speciality class away from the others like the engineer class. IT is one that should only be played by maybe 2-3 people on a team, not 1/4 of the team or more.

Snipers are not good at assaulting because of the pistol, and have no use in squads unless the map is extreme in distance. And trust me, snipers already have a fast rate of fire. IT is in no way realistic when you have a sniper go insta-prone and fire off 3 shots into you before you can kill him. I see this happen all the time.

Snipers should really be taken off some maps like Karkand or Shaqi and let to the big maps like Al Jabur or Steel Thunder until they can be properly implimented into the game with the right uniforms and such.

[solipsism]

No matter how good you are with teh sniper, it still sucks from Deviation, if thats not able to be fixed he should just be taken out. Its a crime to have this kind of sniping in a 'realism' game of any sort, teamplay based or not.

Btw, i am a decent sniper in the game.

[coolhand]

Sniper class should be removed. Then, make them pick-up kits that take 10-15 minutes to respawn so noobs don't camp for them. This'll make would-be snipers just join a squad and sling an M16 and duke it out on the frontlines.
The sniper rifle in FH is deadly - 1 shot 1 kill 80% of the time. PRMM's system should be like that too; but limited in numbers to 3 per team or so and ONLY as a pickup kit.

On another note, Devs, is it possible to add sway to the scopes/ironsights?

[SOTOLeo]

i notice there's A LOT of suggestions that go completely against what is really happening in a battle. like taking away the sniper class!!!

snipers need their own squads with another assault/specialforces guy with them. 2 man squads called sniper/scout. 1 takes out long range target, the other protects the sniper from shorter range targets in tighter situations and has his own objectives like if he's an engineer, he can block a bridge while the sniper protects him from afar. together these squads can be very effective as a complement to the assault squads.

actually an assault guy with the ammo going with a sniper would be great because of shortage of ammo also.

that way, if the sniper doesnt have that protection and aid, his ammo is gone pretty damn soon and he becomes useless for the rest of the mission.

reducing the accuracy/lethality of the sniper rifles is not a good choice, reducing ammo is!

also, if servers encourage snipers to set up sniper/scout squads, the gameplay would improve, in my opinion.

1 sniper/scout squad for every assault squad is the right balance.

[PandorasGhost]

You are close my friend, on is a spotter the other is the sniper, and the spotter yes keeps the sniper alive while the sniper takes out the target, "Snipers and force multiplyer" they are there to do the job of a groupe of men, lets say you need to take out an enemy commander, now you could send in a tacktical assault team like SAS or Green Berets? or send in a platoon? or a sniper to just put one round into the target? and then the enemy will scrable and the rest of the platoon moves in.

first the idea of onlt one sniper per team? no i think this to be a bad idea, but only because some noob will take sniper and then just stay as sniper all round.

and someone like me who likes being sniper will not be able to do any good, sniper is always good as a forward observer, spotting tanks APC or infantry for their team mates. limiting ammo yes maybe a good idea but how much ammo does a real sniper carry? just enough to do the job required, i have to admit only once did i run out of primary ammo, because every other time i died before i ran out.

i like the sniper kit, but they never miss a shoot, i feel the random deveation needs to be tuned down as i has serveral head shoots lined up and missed completetly, and my postiton was compromised because when i did hit my mark he was looking at me, i feel the inacuracy is a bad and flawed. SNIPERS NEVER MISS IN REAL LIFE, they are that well trained that they could hit a playing card as a distance of what? half a mile? to a mile? while its moving? they adjust for all things including bullet drop and wind shear?

please take this into accound, i have learnt on org BF2 to addjust for bullet drop so please adjust the accuracy of the sniper? thanks

[brokencrow]

Damage should not be reduced due to the low rate of fire. It has to be a one shot kill weapon. All that really needs to be done is to get rid of the "lottery" ballistics and put limits on how many snipers a team can have. As others have said, it just doesn't do to have a totally unrealisitic sniper class in a game like PRMM. I don't think lowering the ammo is a particularly good idea either as it is perfectly reasonable to expect a sniper to carry three mags (In reality probably more).

BC

[brokencrow]

first the idea of onlt one sniper per team? no i think this to be a bad idea, but only because some noob will take sniper and then just stay as sniper all round.

SNIPERS NEVER MISS IN REAL LIFE, they are that well trained that they could hit a playing card as a distance of what? half a mile? to a mile? while its moving? they adjust for all things including bullet drop and wind shear?

There needs to be class limits. Too many snipers ruins the game. I understand that you like to snipe but sometimes you have to sacrifice.

Snipers DO miss, that isnt the argument. The argument is that in this game, the fact that whether you hit or not is entirely out of your control and needs to be addressed.

S

[Thunder]

i honestly hate the limiting of the classes, it stops some of the most able players from getting the class, you end up with with the people who join the server the fastest rather than the people that want to use it.

lets see how they change and balance the classes, and try to aviod somthing as drastic as limiting the classes.

[BLind]

class limitations would be the best and most realistc way to keep the game balanced.

its also not at all drastic, most games use class limits as it allows the weapons to be nerf free yet not dominate the game. And even if a good balance is struck with the weapons, its still possible that you could have 32 snipers V 32 snipers, how realistic would that be.