Attack Helicopters and Tanks...

[Sparatan117]

The problem is getting blown to pieces by a lone fifty cal or a 20mm cannon in the case of the Apache.

There in lies the problem with the game, I don't know about other airframes (cobra, huey) but I've had Apaches come back that looked like swiss cheese (or worse) with a missing engine to top it off. Those things hold their weight. I can't tell you why they can stand it (classified materials) but trust me, you could shoot up the drive shaft alone and it would still gladly keep swinging that T/R. Theres also a Main and Backup so if one dies the other takes over. 50 cals obviously should have a difficult time taking it down, but a 20mm should be pretty easy. I agree the gunner should be on top of it and that 20mm should never have the chance to get it off but not all people are good.

and yes I agree with that part about the lock on after time for other airframes (helicopters in the civilian world ), but the Apache is like the Ferrari of the sky and should be shown as such.

Sparatan - AW aren't owned by Boeing. They're the company made from Augusta (an Italian aerospace firm) and Westland - a British firm - when they merged a few years ago. AW are the people behind the A129, the Lynx and the Merlin

Not quite license built, Mas. They come to AW in a kit and are assembled there along with the non US spec parts. So, it's more like "license assembled" or "custom tuned."

The US still sells them to UK so I'm happy but that bunny trail is now closed due to flooding

[Hunt3r]

There in lies the problem with the game, I don't know about other airframes (cobra, huey) but I've had Apaches come back that looked like swiss cheese (or worse) with a missing engine to top it off. Those things hold their weight. I can't tell you why they can stand it (classified materials) but trust me, you could shoot up the drive shaft alone and it would still gladly keep swinging that T/R. Theres also a Main and Backup so if one dies the other takes over. 50 cals obviously should have a difficult time taking it down, but a 20mm should be pretty easy. I agree the gunner should be on top of it and that 20mm should never have the chance to get it off but not all people are good.

and yes I agree with that part about the lock on after time for other airframes (helicopters in the civilian world ), but the Apache is like the Ferrari of the sky and should be shown as such.





The US still sells them to UK so I'm happy but that bunny trail is now closed due to flooding

Well I know that a civ full sim ala DCS Black Shark would be 30 years off for the Longbow version of the Apache.

So I suppose making the Apache highly resistant to 50 cal would be nice to be in the game.

[Sparatan117]

Especially with how many people on a map would have a 50 cal or less form of machine gun to shoot at it.

haha thinking about this I remember one of them that came in. When the bird lands we run up there with a headset and plug into the either left or right wing to talk to the pilot. before i could finish "how are ya sir" his words were "GD AK's", to which i looked under the bird to see many bullet holes....that was a long night of maintenance.

[Hunt3r]

Especially with how many people on a map would have a 50 cal or less form of machine gun to shoot at it.

haha thinking about this I remember one of them that came in. When the bird lands we run up there with a headset and plug into the either left or right wing to talk to the pilot. before i could finish "how are ya sir" his words were "GD AK's", to which i looked under the bird to see many bullet holes....that was a long night of maintenance.

So let's tally up what should be done in PR for the attack helos:

The Apache should be able to take everything up to 50 cal with not much problem. The Cobra should be able too, if that's confirmed. The Apache and Cobra need an extra hellfire, the Apache needs another 200 30mm HE rounds.

All choppers should have lock on abilities for vehicles, and possibly stationary weapons, along with the current laser guided and laser targeted modes. However, only the Apache should actively show all targets with the lock on box, and be able to lock and fire on any one of them. The Cobra and Mi-28 should only have the lock on box display once you are locked onto a target.

AAVs should be more effective against helicopters. As soon as you fire it will only track the target you fired at, not anything else. Preferably, attack helicopters should get a missile tone as soon as it is being targeted by laser or IR guided weapons.

AA should easily take down attack helos, but portable MANPADs shouldn't have a giant green box on the target with a shoot message when you lock. Instead you should only get a tone if you lock, and you don't get a notice if it's locking onto a flare or the aircraft.

As usual, anything that isn't small arms should be a serious problem for helicopters. If you have anything that is considered an autocannon, it should make for a bad day for those flying.

APCs going against an attack helo, they should be especially wary, since the auto-cannon can really pound away at thinner armor, but IFVs should require an ATGM to take out. It's time that attack helicopters can actually do what it's supposed to do without having to return with alarm bells ringing and the rudder pedals dead.

And if the devs think this is a bad idea, make sure to put it down and lock this thread, it's starting to get to the point where it's getting cluttered.

[Sparatan117]

Seal of approval

[Hunt3r]

Oh, and letting the gunner control the hydras (if it's realistic) would be nice. Means that it's pointless to lonewolf an attack helo, and that the pilot only needs to worry about doing AA duties in an emergency.

[goguapsy]

You Shall Never Underestimate The Coolness Of Lazing A Target And Seeing It Get Blow To Pieces.

[Hunt3r]

You Shall Never Underestimate The Coolness Of Lazing A Target And Seeing It Get Blow To Pieces.

Ok, but the thing is that attack helicopters are meant make tank and APC killing a regular event.

Feeling gratified because you guided a single ATGM into a target with the LT mode means that the attack helos need a serious increase in it's deadliness against armor.

[angellfall]

Ok, but the thing is that attack helicopters are meant make tank and APC killing a regular event.

Feeling gratified because you guided a single ATGM into a target with the LT mode means that the attack helos need a serious increase in it's deadliness against armor.

Agreed it is not Project arcane its Project REALITY I dont actually get why DEV's are so slow to improve this mod >: ( It looks like CA mod is so many steps ahead of PR... Im soon starting to play only CA tho

[Hunt3r]

Agreed it is not Project arcane its Project REALITY I dont actually get why DEV's are so slow to improve this mod >: ( It looks like CA mod is so many steps ahead of PR... Im soon starting to play only CA tho

Except you know, PR has much better infantry mechanics.

It could be better, but PR has the best infantry experience in any game.

Anyhow, I only think the vehicles, flying or not, need work. Otherwise this mod is pretty much as good as it gets.

The jeeps and whatnot are fine. All the other vehicles are not.

[Masaq]

Well I know that a civ full sim ala DCS Black Shark would be 30 years off for the Longbow version of the Apache.

So I suppose making the Apache highly resistant to 50 cal would be nice to be in the game.

AH-64D has already been annouced as being the third aircraft that Eagle Dynamics will release for DCS.

[Kirra]

That is alot of Hellfires....

[Hunt3r]

Masaq;1139980']

AH-64D has already been annouced as being the third aircraft that Eagle Dynamics will release for DCS.

I believe that the AH-64D's operator's manual is still classified, so Eagle Dynamics won't do it.

They're modeling the AH-64A.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t ... ght=AH-64D

For Eagle Dynamics to do an AH-64D, the US Gov has to declassify all of the nice systems that make the Longbow a Longbow.

[CAS_117]

Except you know, PR has much better infantry mechanics.

It could be better, but PR has the best infantry experience in any game.

Anyhow, I only think the vehicles, flying or not, need work. Otherwise this mod is pretty much as good as it gets.

The jeeps and whatnot are fine. All the other vehicles are not.

Come to our test on the 25th I'm sure you'll have a chance to try some infantry fighting.

[Hunt3r]

Come to our test on the 25th I'm sure you'll have a chance to try some infantry fighting.

Well I mostly play for the helos and whatnot.

If it drops the weird "wait five seconds before shooting at each other" then I'd start shipping CA as the best mod for a mod ever.

And I would need to get the version you guys are testing.

[CAS_117]

Comparison of BF2, PR, and CA inf from other thread:

These numbers are deviation factors. Remember that the higher the deviation, the longer the time it takes to settle.

BF2 (walking with scope) = 1.2

PR (walking with scope) = 1.35

CA (walking with scope) = .36

Second shot (fire) deviation (Just on the x axis as I am lazy. Standing + Walking):

BF2 (walking with scope) = 2.4

PR (walking with scope) = 1.89

CA (walking with scope) = .45

Ballistics Gravity Coefficient (I used snipers as an example since this affects them the most. Rifle of choice was the M24):

BF2 (usrif_m24_Projectile) = 0

PR (762_51_sniper) = 0.1

CA (762_51_sniper) = 0.66 (measured as earth)

*Edit: While I was at it I decided to measure the maximum footspeeds of the soldiers in PR. While on average they are probably all much closer, no one cares about that because usually you are moving from cover to cover. Also taking into account Combined Arms slower acceleration + deceleration these numbers will vary. But still this is about CQB.

BF2 = 6.33m/s

PR = 5.83m/s

CA = 4m/s

Back on topic as far as the hellfires go, there is no difference between representing an AH-64D or A ingame; they both should track sources of contrast in visible o IR spectrums.

[Hunt3r]

Comparison of BF2, PR, and CA inf from other thread:

These numbers are deviation factors. Remember that the higher the deviation, the longer the time it takes to settle.



Back on topic as far as the hellfires go, there is no difference between representing an AH-64D or A ingame; they both should track sources of contrast in visible o IR spectrums.

Well, in the BF2 engine it doesn't matter. If you could do multi launch, yes, there'd be a difference.

[General Dragosh]

Wrong post

[TempesT]

Attack Choppers need a new system to make them more deadly in respect for hellfires. At the moment only very skilled pilots can keep them in the air, and if one person on the other team decides they want to find and kill the attack chopper, its a very easy thing to do considering the vast amount of weaponry capable of easily taking down an attack chopper.

Currently attack choppers must rely totally on their team and their spotters, but even this is not enough. You cannot expect the team to tell the attack choppers of the movements of every enemy who may pose a threat, because there are so many.

As said before, attack choppers take 20 minutes to respawn and cost a lot of tickets. This implies this is a very valuable asset. I would say otherwise, despite the attack choppers many abilities and seemingly devastating weaponry, it is just so easy to destroy one if you want to. The Muttrah city Cobra is probably the hardest attack chopper to keep alive. I have kept it alive for whole rounds but many have I died early. Hiding AA, rushing AA, mounted AA, HAT kits, ZSUs and the biggest threat: APCs. It should be hard to kill such a valuable asset, but its pathetically easy. In order to survive in Muttrah the cobra must constantly switch tactics, and move so much to avoid these threats that it can barely do any damage in the end.

[Hunt3r]

Attack Choppers need a new system to make them more deadly in respect for hellfires. At the moment only very skilled pilots can keep them in the air, and if one person on the other team decides they want to find and kill the attack chopper, its a very easy thing to do considering the vast amount of weaponry capable of easily taking down an attack chopper.

Currently attack choppers must rely totally on their team and their spotters, but even this is not enough. You cannot expect the team to tell the attack choppers of the movements of every enemy who may pose a threat, because there are so many.

As said before, attack choppers take 20 minutes to respawn and cost a lot of tickets. This implies this is a very valuable asset. I would say otherwise, despite the attack choppers many abilities and seemingly devastating weaponry, it is just so easy to destroy one if you want to. The Muttrah city Cobra is probably the hardest attack chopper to keep alive. I have kept it alive for whole rounds but many have I died early. Hiding AA, rushing AA, mounted AA, HAT kits, ZSUs and the biggest threat: APCs. It should be hard to kill such a valuable asset, but its pathetically easy. In order to survive in Muttrah the cobra must constantly switch tactics, and move so much to avoid these threats that it can barely do any damage in the end.

The point of having an attack helo have to be the prey instead of the predator is why it's in PR, what other reason would there be?

But yeah, just need a way to fire on the move, and all is well.