Over-the-Sight Aiming for AR

[Silly_Savage]

You say you're not wanting new sights, but more of a view looking over your scope/optics?

You are essentially asking for backup sights. Of which have already been suggested and can be found in the Already Suggested Suggestions thread.

Posted for your convenience, because I'm sure you didn't even bother searching in the first place. You can find it here.

Ctrl + F, "Backup sights", to help make it easier on yourself.

I personally wouldn't mind it if right-clicking in the "undeployed" mode shouldered the weapon and had you peering over the sight/using the appropriate backup sights if available. I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at.

All in all though, I'm not going to lose sleep over it if it's not implemented, and neither should you. Just play the game some more and get to know where the center of the screen is like the rest of the community and you'll do just fine.

[Acemantura]

further more i would take the oppertunity to propagandate: Less one-shot Kills, More Surpression Fire!

Currently people shoot me when I suppress them, I find it necessary to hit them on the first try.

So, your telling us to REVERT back to BF2, with the crosshairs in the middle. I mean thats what im getting out of this.

ralfi, seriously?

I'm asking that we get a right-click view that is along a parralel line-of-sight to the barrel. NOT CROSSHAIRS. dont make me spank you.

Use ur sights, thats what its there for. If you have to hip fire, ur not supposed to have an EXACT location of ur bullets, just a general direction, that being the middle of ur screen.

That is what Deviation is for. And apparently we aren't firing from the hip, when right-clicked, but from the shoulder.

PS: the ace mod thing you suggested, i know it. Its nothing more than the SAME EXACT thing as you just right clicking to put ur sights up.

If you have a certain sight, there is a little line on top of that sight, and thats all the shift V does. There are some more complex sights there that switch you to another sight, but all and all, its still exactly the same thing.

Ralfi if you had read carefully and calmly you would know that I, technically, did not post anything about the ace mod. I actually dont play anything other than PR because this game constantly challenges me tactically and strategically, and with this recent suggestion thread, diplomatically.

Just to clarify. Are you suggesting this, because when in an acog mode you cant see whats around you and you want an outside view to see more? Or are you just such a bad shot that you cant even aim with a Reddot, or a scope?

Just to clarify, I am suggesting this because:

1. I am tired ofsuppression not doing what it was designed for i.e. dibilitating an enemy response.
2. I play paintball and I rarely use my aimpoint and sight, i use the side of my barrel
3. I'd like to see more of my surroundings while aiming more accurately.
4. It just plain takes too effing long to deploy properly in CQB, and then having to transfer to long range in an instant, like on Barracuda on dealing with external and internal assaults on the supply fort.

[Acemantura]

I personally wouldn't mind it if right-clicking in the "undeployed" mode shouldered the weapon and had you peering over the sight/using the appropriate backup sights if available. I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at.

That's exactly it.

FYI, I'm already "training" to hit targets without my trusty red dot. Though it doesn't mean I want to.

[gazzthompson]

2. I play paintball and I rarely use my aimpoint and sight, i use the side of my barrel

are you serious? there is NO comparison in ballistic performance of a paint ball gun and a rifle.. yes a red dot is not needed for a paintball gun, but that because it has a 30m (ish) range!

[ralfidude]

Look all im saying is that when ur in hip fire mode, or shoulder fire, whatever, you dont have any indication IRL as to where your exactly pointing at, aside from just in front of you. Sooooo, what myself and other people are getting heated up about, is the fact that unless you have some kind of complicated tetrahedral shaped monitor, it shouldnt be hard at all to guess where the center of your screen is....

We dont need any kind of marker to represent where the gun is aiming at. A bit of practice and you should be alright. But the whole red dot on your screen is a no no. Somebody last night told me about you and ur post when we were playing and everybody basically said the same thing about it.

[McBumLuv]

are you serious? there is NO comparison in ballistic performance of a paint ball gun and a rifle.. yes a red dot is not needed for a paintball gun, but that because it has a 30m (ish) range!

Then again, I'm sure that's the entire point he's trying to make here. For the room-to-room CQC, there is no advantage to those who enter tactically with their weapon shouldered and looking down the side of the barrel. Instead what we can do is "walk" at snails pace into a building with sights raised, but which may give us ridiculous tunnel vision, or we can go in at a faster, more appropriate pace, but with the weapon at the hip in the hope that you can run around and up to the enemy and spray and pray.

I'm in no way advocating the reappearance of the crosshair, instead I'm simply identifying the lack of shouldering the weapon for CQC purposes, or the ability to enter a room at a proper pace, which is neither horribly slow nor too fast.

I believe that people are still a bit too riled up, though, to consider ace's true intention yet though, and are instead reacting to his last thread violently. I strongly approve of backup sights, or aiming down the side of the barrel whenever possible, but also that the entire walking/jogging pace be altered to one more suitable for CQC in this stance.

[ralfidude]

Well the current shouldering is fine as it is, so the only set back we have is the slowness of it currently while walking, ur saying? I would agree. When clearing buildings i dont bother with shouldering it at all, i go in spraying, and it always works, almost ALWAYS, lol, but, if im at a defensive position, then i will crouch with the gun shouldered, but still on un-deployed, to give greater stability and accuracy, and that seems to do the trick for the most part. Unless im defending from a position i can go into my scope, well then by all means i will indulge there.

[Acemantura]

Lads let me re-post it

Just to clarify, I am suggesting this because:

1. I am tired of suppression not doing what it was designed for i.e. debilitating an enemy response.
2. I play paintball and I rarely use my aimpoint and sight, i use the side of my barrel
3. I'd like to see more of my surroundings while aiming more accurately.
4. It just plain takes too effing long to deploy properly in CQB, and then having to transfer to long range in an instant, like on Barracuda on dealing with external and internal assaults on the supply fort.

This is what I believe having this new right-click view will accomplish.

Why wont its accomplish these things? Or are other things in the works to make this suggestion obsolete.

For instance do you think that on #4 that I would simply be screwed anyway and I have to choose my battle (that is BS).

Post Script:
Why is the undep right click not as 'nerfed' as the deployed version? or is that just the way it seems.

[Ninja2dan]

As requested, I'll post my opinion on this matter based on real experience. I speak for myself and this is solely my own opinions, not that of the DEV team or anyone else.

First, my understanding is that Ace is wanting to have an alternate view mode while aiming. Not an optic, but something more in-between the "sighted-in" mode and the "weapon down" mode. In his opinion, this would allow him (and others) to acquire a point-shoot over-the-sight picture to have a better understanding of where the barrel is pointed without having to actually use the sights (iron or optic).


While this method might be useful for those with magnified optics (4x and up), it would be pointless for those with iron sights or red-dot/reflex/holo/etc. I have served as an Automatic Rifleman (SAW Gunner) myself and am currently still a weapons and tactics instructor, so I have plenty of experience with using weapons equipped with various types of optics and in various situations. While many of us do train to fire "over-the-barrel", this is usually done in limited situations like CQB or rapid-shoot drills. And to be honest, the only place where you are going to learn those techniques are in law enforcement, NOT the military. The military teaches you to use your sights at all times, and you will use them when ever possible. Even in CQB we don't hip shoot, it is dangerous and undisciplined weapon tactics. But that is real life, not a game. We don't have civilians standing around, we don't have rounds that will punch through walls, and we aren't worried about collateral damage to the environment.

In the future, PR might see other options available where the DEV team seems fit. So something like this may be added, or it might not. Generally, if something isn't needed or isn't very realistic in a military application, it will be left out.

Because this game is based on the military and not law enforcement, players should be learning to use their sights. Because this is a game, it's impossible to give players a realistic peripheral vision range or other aspects that we have in real life, but I think that even in PR players should be capable of engaging targets at long and medium range with magnified optics and at medium and close range using iron sights. Unless you are in CQB mode, which you would just hip-shoot. The only time I think we would need an over-the-barrel view mode is for people using highly-magnified optics such as sniper or DM weapons. Snipers should have a sidearm for backup, and the DMR should have the rest of his squad as backup. If your weapon system isn't suited for CQB, stay outside and cover the rest of your team. It's the same reason you don't clear rooms with an AT-4 on your shoulder.

A basic rule of common sense, if you are on a map where you know you'll be operating in close quarters, then you try selecting a kit with iron sights or the dot, nothing magnified like the ACOG. Or you join a squad and mix the weapon ratio with some long-ranged and some short-ranged, and work as a team to effectively engage targets at all ranges. This is actually why the DMR was fielded.


So is an additional "sighting" method realistic? Yes, for those of us who train with such techniques, which isn't usually your average soldier such as those being played in PR. Should a feature like this be added? I don't think we need it, we have other alternatives that work just fine without it.

My opinion, if you need to click any button to bring up a sight, it might as well be your irons. If you are close enough to the target that your irons are too much, then hip shoot. I train to fire my pistol from the hip at close range, as do all LEO's. And I can hit a target center-mass at 50m easily this way. With practice, you should be able to hit a target center-mass in PR from the hip at similar distances just as easily.

[Acemantura]

Well that settles it,

In this matter, I cannot thank you enough for your succinct addition to this discussion, I call that a home run.

Now unless another dev or com has anything to contribute I believe that settles the matter

Please close the thread

thanks again

[Saobh]

Locked per OP demand.