Spawning aircraft in mid-flight (and related "suggestions")

[sickly]

Eliminates the need for airbases (i.e. that are unrealistically close to the combat area and prone to base rape).

Ideally, what I want to see is players spawning directly into vehicles--something that can already be done using BF2's engine--that simultaneously spawn on the edge of the map already in motion (so you don't stall at start). The effect being that the player selects the aircraft spawn point but can only spawn once the aircraft spawns; and the aircraft likewise only spawns when the player does (so you don't have planes falling out of the sky whenever no one decides to pilot--that reminds me, no more pilot/crew kits and no bailing out...when your machine gets shot down/knocked out, you're dead plain and simple).

I also want to see a queue mechanism by which the first player to select the vehicle spawn point gets the vehicle (way better than having to fight over vehicles at a base--granted, this isn't dependent on the spawning in mid-flight). (While you're add it, add a time limit per vehicle use to avoid jetwhores.)

Additionally, I'd like to see aircraft be able to operate "outside" the map--I read once that when you go beyond the map border, the terrain just repeats itself endlessly. Could see this working very well for aircraft doing wide holding patterns outside the combat area. Pipe dream?

[badmojo420]

But then where would the jets rearm?

I like your last idea tho, about flying outside the map. But i think they're working on it.

[Hunt3r]

Eliminates the need for airbases (i.e. that are unrealistically close to the combat area and prone to base rape).

Ideally, what I want to see is players spawning directly into vehicles--something that can already be done using BF2's engine--that simultaneously spawn on the edge of the map already in motion (so you don't stall at start). The effect being that the player selects the aircraft spawn point but can only spawn once the aircraft spawns; and the aircraft likewise only spawns when the player does (so you don't have planes falling out of the sky whenever no one decides to pilot--that reminds me, no more pilot/crew kits and no bailing out...when your machine gets shot down/knocked out, you're dead plain and simple).

I also want to see a queue mechanism by which the first player to select the vehicle spawn point gets the vehicle (way better than having to fight over vehicles at a base--granted, this isn't dependent on the spawning in mid-flight). (While you're add it, add a time limit per vehicle use to avoid jetwhores.)

Additionally, I'd like to see aircraft be able to operate "outside" the map--I read once that when you go beyond the map border, the terrain just repeats itself endlessly. Could see this working very well for aircraft doing wide holding patterns outside the combat area. Pipe dream?

Simply put, no.

Though I would be in favor of having the ability for aircraft to loiter outside of the map, because that means you could have infantry give you intel on targets, and once that happens you just fly in, spam weapons, level area, get out, land, resupply, take off, and wait until CAS is called in.

BTW, the ability to fly out of the map to do a holding pattern is already in Combined Arms.

[Rissien]

Too much potential for asshattery. All someone would have to do is click first and screw the 'appropriate' pilot from getting in.

Like mojo said where woud they rearm. and another thing time limit on the jets? What if the pilot is doing real well and doesnt get shot down? Kill him just because hes been a vital asset to the team?

[Killer2354]

H[=ElvishKnight;1146602']
Like mojo said where woud they rearm. and another thing time limit on the jets? What if the pilot is doing real well and doesnt get shot down? Kill him just because hes been a vital asset to the team?

Actually that happened to me before... 2 times actually. one was "accidental"(he was inside manpad and when i was landing, he shot and the missle hit me.) the second time someone put a pack of C4 on me and blew me up. he left before getting banned.

on topic. loitering outside the combat zone to hold formation is already done in combined arms.

[Kruder]

Sadly,i dont think any of the devs give a damn about jets,those who did, created another mod,or mod on a mod...

[arjan]

Sadly,i dont think any of the devs give a damn about jets,those who did, created another mod,or mod on a mod...

They should be getting rid of anyway.
Noob magnet
maps to small
Unrealstic physics

[Saobh]

Sadly,i dont think any of the devs give a damn about jets,those who did, created another mod,or mod on a mod...

Ever considered that rather then 'they don't give a damn' they consider issues like game balance & other things which affect 31 people of each team, rather then the 1 up in the air yelling "WEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEE"

But more seriously it is well known that even 4x4 km maps are still small to properly have jets be realistic as they should be in PR.

So thank you for your thoughts but your logic on that point is a tad misguided.

[Rhino]

Sadly,i dont think any of the devs give a damn about jets,those who did, created another mod,or mod on a mod...

lol, I'm a huge jet whore and I can tell you, many devs do give a damn about jets including myself. Just wait and see what I've been working on

[sickly]

Additionally, I'd be interested in multiple random start spawns and a enemy-only penalty zone around the spawns area(s). That would do much to avoid start spawn-raping.

But then where would the jets rearm?

The best I can think of is to fly back to the area of the original spawn (not that realistic but then, neither is having a base a km away from where combat is taking place).

Simply put, no.

No you don't think the spawning in of vehicles that way is possible (putting aside workload factors) using BF2's engine, or no you don't want something like that in PR?

BTW, the ability to fly out of the map to do a holding pattern is already in Combined Arms.

Thanks, will definitely check it out (didn't realize CA was that far ahead).

[quote=""'="]H[=ElvishKnight;1146602']Too much potential for asshattery. All someone would have to do is click first and screw the 'appropriate' pilot from getting in.

Like mojo said where woud they rearm. and another thing time limit on the jets? What if the pilot is doing real well and doesnt get shot down? Kill him just because hes been a vital asset to the team?[/quote]

I suppose it's inevitable that bad players will sometimes get the first spawn but they won't get the next one (as long as another player stays on spawn--I'm not sure how BF2 spawning system handles players waiting; usually they just spawn automatically unless the point is blocked (red). Would have to work something out.

The time limit just ensures that an asshat flying around doing nothing can't do so for the whole round (assuming he doesn't get shot down). Likewise, just because a player is an ace doesn't mean he's entitled to have all the fun right?

The principle idea behind this is to smooth-out the whole vehicle selection/use in PR (and BF2 for that matter).

I suppose you could always add a spawn limit for players so they could only spawn in to a vehicle x number of times during a round.

Additionally, a system of blocking players from selecting/using further vehicles of said type when they crash them/get fragged too quickly would seem to be in order.

[quote="Kruder""]Sadly,i dont think any of the devs give a damn about jets,those who did, created another mod,or mod on a mod...[/quote]

I was of the understanding that the PR team was considering eventually amalgamating work done on CA into PR. Would only make sense no?

But more seriously it is well known that even 4x4 km maps are still small to properly have jets be realistic as they should be in PR.

Well of course you're never going to get a high level of realism on this engine but you can always have a bit more. To be honest, I'm not really that concerned with realism; it's just that the mod's theme is realism, so it's got to be a factor.

Mainly, the idea was to remove that huge airbase from the map, prevent base-rape (that includes shooting down aircraft taking off from a distance), and make the whole vehicle selection process more fluid.

[sickly]

lol, I'm a huge jet whore and I can tell you, many devs do give a damn about jets including myself. Just wait and see what I've been working on

Can't wait...but what do you think of the vehicle/player spawning system?

[Nimise]

A
The time limit just ensures that an asshat flying around doing nothing can't do so for the whole round (assuming he doesn't get shot down). Likewise, just because a player is an ace doesn't mean he's entitled to have all the fun right?

Why not just have all vehicles auto destruct so good players cant hog fun? Or how about killing some one who can survive for more that 10 min so that he cant hog all the "life"?


This defeats the purpose of even trying to be a good player if you will just get punished for it because some guy on the ground wants to "1337 A10 strafe"

[Rissien]

Especially if the pilot is a good one I would think any player would want him to be the one flying the entire round, next map *or round if your on a kashan 24/7* someone else can fly. Thats the point, having a specialized squad that knows what they are doing. Sometimes yes a jet squad will have a couple extra people who rotate out on deaths but penalizing someone for doing good is rediculous. It would penalize more than just the pilot but the entire team as well.

Say the game kills the pilot because 'hes been flying too long' he dies, thats a ticket, the jet crashes somewhere, theres another twenty plus the twenty minute respawn. Now what if both jets are still airborne? The team gets screwed out of their air cover because the pilots have been 'flying too long and its someone elses turn'

[sickly]

Why not just have all vehicles auto destruct so good players cant hog fun? Or how about killing some one who can survive for more that 10 min so that he cant hog all the "life"?


This defeats the purpose of even trying to be a good player if you will just get punished for it because some guy on the ground wants to "1337 A10 strafe"

I suppose you're right but this is still a game so it's not really fair that one player has access to a primary asset in the game. A player has a reasonable amount of time to play and then he's out--no penalty.

If the player's an ace, he'll never get shot down and just dominate the map; if he's an asshat, he will just mess around. The average player (competent pilot/crewman) that just wants the full experience gets shafted by either extreme.

Sure if he's an ace, it's not so great but if he's an asshat it means you don't have to put up with him and his **** for the whole round--very irritating when you really need air support and he's off playing with himself.

[sickly]

H[=ElvishKnight;1147124']
Say the game kills the pilot because 'hes been flying too long' he dies, thats a ticket, the jet crashes somewhere, theres another twenty plus the twenty minute respawn.

The spawn times would have to be modified (maybe have it spawn sooner when destroyed via timer?).

[HAAN4]

If this is For only AIRCRAFT MAPS X AIRCRAFT MAPS.

fine.

but in regular maps. NO. airbases are fine has they are

[Hunt3r]

Just so you know, If you have a Tunguska to sit at your base, assuming it has radar, and that all friendly aircraft stay far far away from the missiles being fired, then no enemy aircraft will dare to even try to fly near the base, even far up in the clouds.

And being able to loiter outside the combat zone means that as long as you can actually find the combat zone when CAS is called in, you will be able to simply swoop in, fire away, then get out again and loiter around.

Suddenly, 4x4km maps are big enough.

[jbgeezer]

lol, I'm a huge jet whore and I can tell you, many devs do give a damn about jets including myself. Just wait and see what I've been working on

Dude, when Rhino says that, something drastical is going to happen! Man, cant wait to find that out!

[Kruder]

They should be getting rid of anyway.
Noob magnet
maps to small
Unrealstic physics

Same goes for choppers and they have far worse physics,especially Hueys and LBs?(ever seen upside down flying Hueys almost for whole round?/or LBs circle strafing targets which is just BS IRL),finally they attract noobs more than jets,because landing a jet is harder compared to flying a chopper,so most noobs know its a one way ticket with jets,therefore they prefer (attack)Choppers more if they can find one.

Dont know how u find 4x4 km maps too small for jets(if realism involved POV,same argument could still be applied,because chopper equipment allows them to engage multiple moving targets up to 4-5 kms IRL)

If u find it too small that jets find each other too soon and shoot each other down,that is just wrong and doesnt happen that way...

If u are just bored while flying a jet because you fly out of the map too easily then just dont fly,i dont mind turning the jet opp. direction once in a while...

Ever considered that rather then 'they don't give a damn' they consider issues like game balance & other things which affect 31 people of each team, rather then the 1 up in the air yelling "WEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEE"

Who said anything about making jets uber and causing other 31 players to suffer,they havent been touched for almost a year and they have massive issues,especially su-27 gunner weapon selection menu(which is a simple thing to fix for example and but left untouched).Just compare how many updates choppers had with jet updates in the last year and compare them...

For small map issue read above.

lol, I'm a huge jet whore and I can tell you, many devs do give a damn about jets including myself. Just wait and see what I've been working on

Thats just great news ,because as u know,jets have been left unattended for ages,i also remember reading that anything related to jets were low priority on some stuff list,and another DEV told that if it were up to him he'd remove airplanes alltogether...

[Hunt3r]

Jets, I can tell you, are easy to land in PR even with mouse and keyboard.

Wishlist: Eventually, even if it takes a decade, I'd like to see a runway in PR that's half a mile long, and with bases far far away from each other, and realistic physics.

The amount of nubs that would flip out when they descend into their own rotor wash and crash... or fly into another plane's wake and start getting turbulence...

EDIT: http://www.terathon.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8022

Hi devs.