armor

starwarsfan11 · Post by **starwarsfan11** » 2005-02-06 01:02

could we make it like ground control 2 where the side and back armor is weaker then front?

marto · Post by **marto** » 2005-02-06 01:11

That was already used in bf1942 so it must be in BF2. Also this is a realism mod so I am sure the Devs will make it true.

snipurs · Post by **snipurs** » 2005-02-07 04:39

thow now the tanks are(i would assume) are the same armor all around, i would think they only did that in world war 2 is cause there engines couldnt support the weight but i am just gheusing dont know really

edited, i ment in real life that i dont think they make tanks with weak points

snipurs · Post by **snipurs** » 2005-02-08 00:54

way would poeple want to create tanks with weakpoints? (talking about real life dude not ingame stuff)

Post by TR » 2005-02-08 02:55

It's not so much that people want to create tanks with weak points. Armor is applied in the thickest points where they believe the threats are most likely, head on, turret sides, etc. Not where the attack is least likely (rear, under carriage, etc)... it gets down to issues of weight if they try to make all sides equally all with the same armor thickness.

snipurs · Post by **snipurs** » 2005-02-08 03:00

makes sence but still i think they shouldnt have that in the real life a mine if a tank gets behind can then get hit so easyly wasting life weird w/e

Post by **JS.Fortnight.A** » 2005-02-08 03:02

IRT: TR,
To that I would also like to note, that armor is placed at points which are the easiest to hit, large flat surfaces are prime candidate for attacks, and therefore have extra armor applied to them. Its the same reason (other than the fact that it protects vital organs) why soldiers where armor on their chest/backs, seeing as that is the largest target area on their person.

marto · Post by **marto** » 2005-02-08 03:04

They mainly do it for speed. The Abrams has weak spots, but it can reach speeds of up to 42 mph which is quite a tradeoff if you ask me.

CHIKEN · Post by **CHIKEN** » 2005-02-08 21:16

I cant understand why they would think of having that as a "weak point" as most missiles tend to arch over and hit on the top it seems. Well most expensive ones atlest...

Though if you are hit by an expensive anti tank missile no matter how much armour you have on your dead to tell the trouth.... Kinda makes you think you might as well travel in a Humvee with a TOW on the top instead of a tank to tell the truth.

Dr.Spangle · Post by **Dr.Spangle** » 2005-02-08 21:24

It's not a weak point so much as the fact that gravity plays a big role in penetration when something's hitting the top of the tank. With a flat surface on the top of the tank, like the Abrams, penetration is far easier than on a domed surface, on the T72 for example. However, this is a tradeoff for the fact that the T72 presents a higher vertical profile than the Abrams, making it easier to hit. It's much better to not be seen, and not hit, than be able to survive a hit which would likely disable you regardless.

Like mentioned previously, however, one can't make the roof of the turret too heavy, or it requires much more material around it to hold it up, making the tank far heavier in general.

CHIKEN · Post by **CHIKEN** » 2005-02-08 22:08

Error, T72 is a smaller tank in general compared to the m1a1/a2. Which is a behemoth compared to almost all the russian MBTs.

http://arms.host.sk/tanks/m1a1abrams.htm
http://arms.host.sk/tanks/t72.htm

Numerous other websites also say so. But jsut look at the size of the people compared to the tank and you can see that it is larger at every angle i cant understand how you could have figured it was. Though the challenger2 is a few CMs bigger then the m1a2 since its roof is curved...god knows why more armour i presume?

Indeed, thats also a problem with having such heavy tanks power to weight ratios are everything when you need performance...and fuel consumption.

Dr.Spangle · Post by **Dr.Spangle** » 2005-02-08 23:13

...presents a higher vertical profile...

I didn't say anything about the T72 being larger...

Archangel · Post by **Archangel** » 2005-02-09 00:34

[R-DEV wrote:TR]It's not so much that people want to create tanks with weak points. Armor is applied in the thickest points where they believe the threats are most likely, head on, turret sides, etc. Not where the attack is least likely (rear, under carriage, etc)... it gets down to issues of weight if they try to make all sides equally all with the same armor thickness.

Urban fighting changes that to where all sides are most likely, hell I would bet that the least likely spot to be hit in urban areas would be the front because of the main gun is usually there, but that is just my opinion.

CHIKEN · Post by **CHIKEN** » 2005-02-09 01:06

Dr.Spangle wrote:
...presents a higher vertical profile...
I didn't say anything about the T72 being larger...

Ok FINE. The t72 does not have a higher vertical profile then the m1a1/a2.

Happy

:

I said smaller simply because its smaller width/height/length...though i was actually suprised it was narrower. I thought thats how it made up for being shorter/lower and having such a small turret..

As for urban combat. Although it is true your not likely to be hit on the front in urban combat that is not the primary role of the tank. Its just that it is a tough vehicle it can atleast attempt to multi role.

Tacamo · Post by **Tacamo** » 2005-02-09 06:18

With proper support in the air, with infantry and other lighter armor with high/low elevation weapons, MBT's can be used effectively in MOUT. Of course the effectiveness will also be determined by how competent the enemy is and the terrain. In the near future combined active and passive protection methods will improve the weak spots of modern armor.

As far as I see it new active and improved passive armor will change heavy armor a lot, since they can't get much more heavier. I could see a CIWS-like system using a millimeter wave radar to detect missles/RPG's and destroying them. There's already systems out that do this but probably aren't too effective IRL. Electric armor will supplement the regular armor and hybrid electric engines will decrease the acoustic level giving an edge of surprise.