PR > INS

[amazing_retard]

Well, after playing PR for two days straight I have concluded that it is superior to what the HL2 mod Insurgency was attempting to achieve. (This is a pretty bold statement coming from the person who started and led the design and development of Insurgency)

There are several factors though in comparison of where they both sit on the spectrum of tactical shooters.

The determining factor for superiority, I believe, lies in the players. Both as multiplayer games based upon hobbyist and community development (I know, hardly a hobby), it makes all the difference.

I am no longer affiliated with the development of Insurgency (in fact I am banned from the community I formed because I called out the incompetence of the current dev leadership), and those who are running it now are inexperienced and lack the vision to move the mod or genre forward. Frankly, it seems they are only in charge of the mod as opportunists to seize upon the positive reputation that it had already forged. Most of the talent that made Insurgency any good have moved on to work professionally in the industry.

Simply, the players of PR are better. They communicate to use teamwork. That's all we could hope for as a designer of a reality-based tactical shooter. Part of it is the games they are mods for: Insurgency gets players coming from CS and DoD, while PR gets BF2 players. But ultimately, the players looking for a tactical experience are who decide and they have chosen PR over INS. The strength shows in game, in this community and at TacticalGamer.com. Insurgency's community is dismal.

Insurgency had the potential, but I also see some downfalls in the engine. It had to be built from scratch, and did not have the benefit of a similarly designed game such as BF2 to build on top of. The levels are not open enough. Those levels that allow greater freedom of movement to flank and breathe seem to be the most successful. However, the mod is mainly a shooting gallery with one-shot kills and RPG's that are way too effective. It has some realism at the individual level (weapon behaviors, sounds, effects, etc) but at the squad, team, and overall match levels it is not very realistic and frustratingly so.

So I commend you PR devs for what you have produced.

I am in the early stages of a new project - one that will be further from Insurgency and closer to PR, ArmA2, OFPDR, etc. One that will hopefully move the reality-based tactical shooter genre forward, and most importantly have its strength in the community.

CryEngine 3 anyone?


PS: Say hello if you see me in-game with the name: Spearin

PPS: I want those Canadians!

The early insurgency beta was so damn awesome, some of the best gaming I ever experienced! Ty for giving the source community a quality mod ty! TBH I quit INS because it got boring, and evolved into an arcade fps. The devs promised us so much, but in the end they didn't deliver. Do you got a MODMB (or w/e that site is called) page so we can follow ur new mod?

[Chuc]

Yikes.. I had no idea that things were that way.
I'm sure the Project Reality staff are greatly flattered by your praise, and hope that you would keep us on track haha

On a side note, I'm glad to hear that most of the previous art staff went on to bigger and better things professionally. Their work, especially the animation work, became a great reference point for aspiring artists such as myself.

Btw, those canadians are coming!

[Solid Knight]

Sucks you got outed on your own project. But yeah, when you have a bunch of CSS players as your base it's difficult for them to get past the whole run around aiming at the head mentality.

[Clypp]

INS is pretty cool, but it's still a linear twitch shooter. Source doesn't have the capability for large maps though does it?

[Truism]

Great to hear from someone with your broad background and appreciation of the factors involved in making a realism mod.

It's also interesting to see how a project that focused on the individual weapon characteristics and the individual soldier ended up when compared to the direction that PR took post 0.6.

Can't wait to see your contributions to discourse about the direction of PR.

[Expendable Grunt]

The crappy release fiasco and poor assortment of bugs in the release convinced me not to stay with Insurgency mod. Combine that with lack of squad talk and poor engine VOIP handling in general, and I saw no point to staying around at all.

Good to have you over here. If your project's going to be on Cry Engine 3, I could quite possibly be a mapper, as I've done some nifty things with Cry Engine 2's editor.

M.

[charliegrs]

good luck on your new project. if you are a supporter of PR then I know your new project will probably kick lots of ***.

[AfterDune]

Spearin? You were in the same squad as me, yesterday on TG, on Barracuda, US team . Man, that round was intense!

Sad story about INS, never knew. I have enjoyed it a lot in the past. I hope you will find what you're looking for in PR.

CryEngine? A dedicated team started working on PR2, on the C4 engine .

[Conman51]

There are several factors though in comparison of where they both sit on the spectrum of tactical shooters.


Insurgency had the potential, but I also see some downfalls in the engine. It had to be built from scratch, and did not have the benefit of a similarly designed game such as BF2 to build on top of. The levels are not open enough. Those levels that allow greater freedom of movement to flank and breathe seem to be the most successful. However, the mod is mainly a shooting gallery with one-shot kills and RPG's that are way too effective. It has some realism at the individual level (weapon behaviors, sounds, effects, etc) but at the squad, team, and overall match levels it is not very realistic and frustratingly so.

So I commend you PR devs for what you have produced.

I am in the early stages of a new project - one that will be further from Insurgency and closer to PR, ArmA2, OFPDR, etc. One that will hopefully move the reality-based tactical shooter genre forward, and most importantly have its strength in the community.

CryEngine 3 anyone?


PS: Say hello if you see me in-game with the name: Spearin

PPS: I want those Canadians!

Well the only reason i dont play source games is i dont have a steam game

good luck with your work ill be sure to try it out if i can

[Hunt3r]

Well, after playing PR for two days straight I have concluded that it is superior to what the HL2 mod Insurgency was attempting to achieve. (This is a pretty bold statement coming from the person who started and led the design and development of Insurgency)

There are several factors though in comparison of where they both sit on the spectrum of tactical shooters.

The determining factor for superiority, I believe, lies in the players. Both as multiplayer games based upon hobbyist and community development (I know, hardly a hobby), it makes all the difference.

I am no longer affiliated with the development of Insurgency (in fact I am banned from the community I formed because I called out the incompetence of the current dev leadership), and those who are running it now are inexperienced and lack the vision to move the mod or genre forward. Frankly, it seems they are only in charge of the mod as opportunists to seize upon the positive reputation that it had already forged. Most of the talent that made Insurgency any good have moved on to work professionally in the industry.

Simply, the players of PR are better. They communicate to use teamwork. That's all we could hope for as a designer of a reality-based tactical shooter. Part of it is the games they are mods for: Insurgency gets players coming from CS and DoD, while PR gets BF2 players. But ultimately, the players looking for a tactical experience are who decide and they have chosen PR over INS. The strength shows in game, in this community and at TacticalGamer.com. Insurgency's community is dismal.

Insurgency had the potential, but I also see some downfalls in the engine. It had to be built from scratch, and did not have the benefit of a similarly designed game such as BF2 to build on top of. The levels are not open enough. Those levels that allow greater freedom of movement to flank and breathe seem to be the most successful. However, the mod is mainly a shooting gallery with one-shot kills and RPG's that are way too effective. It has some realism at the individual level (weapon behaviors, sounds, effects, etc) but at the squad, team, and overall match levels it is not very realistic and frustratingly so.

So I commend you PR devs for what you have produced.

I am in the early stages of a new project - one that will be further from Insurgency and closer to PR, ArmA2, OFPDR, etc. One that will hopefully move the reality-based tactical shooter genre forward, and most importantly have its strength in the community.

CryEngine 3 anyone?


PS: Say hello if you see me in-game with the name: Spearin

PPS: I want those Canadians!

Yeah, INS feels frustratingly bad tbh.

[Warpig-]

I know you probably don't remember me Argyll but my old nick was Commy. I used to follow INS religiously since the start (I remember your interview on halflife radio back in the day) and I absolustely agree.

Ever since the first beta took for ever to release and then got rushed out the door bugs and all. I remember suggesting the change to the BF2 engine but was shot down lol. But I suggested it for the very reasons I find myself hating the source engine. It's so limited in terms of map size, they always end up feeling claustrophobic, that and clipping on doorways/props gets old VERY quickly.

The lack of vehicles also takes away from the whole counter-insurgency feel. There have been so many times when I've been the .50 gunner rolling down a street, gripping my mouse waiting for an ambush and it's still intense every single time.

It's a shame INS ended up the way it did, because I think you had the right idea, but the wrong engine and sadly the wrong community (My god the INS forums turned from mod talk to liberal bashing at the drop of a hat). But anyway, good to see you active again mate

[Rhino]

Thanks for the praises Argyll.

I played the first version of INS, it had some good things about it but my main issues with it where the map's where far too claustrophobic, you couldn't flank and the other points you mentioned with the same fights in the same places pretty much the same each round.

I'm glad your enjoying PR thou

[fuzzhead]

Interesting perspective Argyll... and I agree with you about your points on Insurgency. I played it and genuinely wanted to love it cause it looked so damn sexy... but the gameplay and especially the players was just too much arcade for me..

On the plus side, Insurgency's weapon animations DID inspire Chuc to transform into Sir Chuc the Greatest BF2 Animator Ever!! And now we got some really awesome animations in PR that I dont think even FH2 can rival.

Interested to hear about your new project... will the Cryengine3 support more than 64 players? That is our main limiting factor now in BF2, the player limit stuck at 64 when we would like it to be bigger, and think our playerbase could handle it as well.

[Zrix]

INS is pretty cool, but it's still a linear twitch shooter.

Exactly.
I play INS from time to time when I want my run n gun fix


I would like INS infantry feel and features with PR's maps and gameplay. Now that would be darn sweet, as BF2's main drawback is infantry combat.

[mat552]

Wow, I'd stopped paying attention to INS for a while and it wound up like that..kinda sad. Really sorry to hear you got outed by your own team.

I would like INS infantry feel and features with PR's maps and gameplay. Now that would be darn sweet, as BF2's main drawback is infantry combat.

The source engine detests (and complains loudly about) large amounts of either open space or vehicles, kind of a shame, but I don't blame valve for not figuring on how widely people would want to mod it

[boilerrat]

So far the only source mod I have played with vehicles that turned out really good is "Empires" which can be found at Empiresmod.com otherwise most of the source mods are pretty crappy. Besides Age of Chivalry.


Since playing Project Reality I don't really trust many other mods, Playing vanilla battlefield 2 makes me feel childish and dirty.

Insurgency itself, I don't even like it sharing the name that our Insurgency has. Hl2 mod's insurgency feels very bland... All you do is capture a flag.

[Expendable Grunt]

Can't stand AoC; computer games just can't do sword play well.

M.

[Warpig-]

It's the source engine. It's just not capable of anything remotely close to realistic infantry combat. Even RnL felt that way to me and that game looks amazing, has some really inovative features to boot. It's just the engine, not the fault of the modders. They've created some amazing content, but it always ends up feeling cramped and twitchy on that engine. BF2 is far from perfect though of course

[Mad-Mike]

Good luck with the mod, please send SS when your progressing.