Changing the name of the officer kit.

[Truism]

[MoW];1180681']You are reading me wrong. I said i don't approve of making the new kit name "NCO" since far from every army has none commisioned officers as group chiefs like US has, very many armies has consript corprals or consript seargents as group cheifs and not some military employed seargent.

The difference is that a state employed seargent is in the army for a long period but a consript corpral or seargent is a consript soldier doing the national military service mandatory training roughly the same time period as a consript soldier and is returnt to the civilian life at the same time as the soldier. For example in the Swedish system we do 11 monthe mandatory military training around the age of 19 then the group chiefs enters the military the same time as the rest of the consripts and then exits at the same time as the rest.

Most consript armies operate in this manner, officers usually only at the lowest platoon commanders.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Corporals and Sergeants NCO's in most armies, whether conscripted or not? Because they don't hold a commission their authority is entirely derived from their superiors, and therefore they can be conscripted?

[ankyle62]

Well there are LCpls that are squad leaders. Should just be fireteam leader.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Yea, it really comes down to how you want to interpret the BF2/PR squads ingame. If they are Fireteams, then a Lcpl or Cpl is gonna lead it which are NCOs (the Cpl is that is). If it is gonna be Squads, then its gonna be Cpls and Sgts which are NCOs. If its gonna be Platoon size level though, then an Officer (2nd or 1st Lieutenant) would work. So guess it really depends on how you want to interpret the squads. I personally think of the squads ingame as Fireteams and when one or more of them move together, as squads. And the Commander above them is basically the Platoon leader since 32 people is around the size of a platoon.

[Truism]

The point is that an NCO is just another kind of Officer - one who doesn't hold a commission.

Having a generic "Officer" kit seems fine. It doesn't distinguish between junior non-commissioned officers (LCPL-CPL), senior non-commissioned officers (Sergeant upwards), Warrant Officers/non-commonwealth equivalents, and commissioned officers (2LT up).

[Herbiie]

The point is that an NCO is just another kind of Officer - one who doesn't hold a commission.

Having a generic "Officer" kit seems fine. It doesn't distinguish between junior non-commissioned officers (LCPL-CPL), senior non-commissioned officers (Sergeant upwards), Warrant Officers/non-commonwealth equivalents, and commissioned officers (2LT up).

I agree.

People think of COs as officers, when NCOs are also Officers, so it's alll fine. Also when Britain had a conscript army it still had NCOs - but I don't know about modern conscript armies.

[TheLean]

[MoW];1180662']I would not approve of that becouse of lots of armies, especially consripct based! , have consripts as group and platoon chiefs and not non commisoned officers. So just becouse USA decided to have grumpy 40 year old seargents as group chiefs dosen't mean that the rest of the world has it.

We dont use the term NCO in sweden but if we were at war wouldnt the conscript officer have a similar position in the hierarchy as an NCO in the american army? Can you point out the difference for me please.

[Acemantura]

We dont use the term NCO in sweden but if we were at war wouldnt the conscript officer have a similar position in the hierarchy as an NCO in the american army? Can you point out the difference for me please.

Well so much for being a neutral country.

Ok so far, the way I understand the issue is that in Sweden (and Israel and China and Korea...) you are conscripted/drafted and have similar rankings to US ranks.

In the US we have "Volunteers" that join a branch of the military tree and serve from a private upward (I dont know the ranks of the Navy, Airforce or Army).

The deal is: Both systems are essentially the same. Wether drafted or volunteering you have a choice to stay in the service and become a career soldier. Because of that commitment you are given larger responsibilities, upwards from a corporal to Sergeant Major.

The OP and our Swedish friends have been talking about the same thing all along.

_____________

To my Quote Post: NCO means Non-Commisioned Officer, given, in the Marines, to Corporals up to Sergeant Majors. It is not given to Officers who have gone to a four year college either obtaining their Reserve (from a Public College)or Active (From a college of War i.e. the Naval Academt @ Annapolis) status as an Officer in the Corps. NCO's have, most often, not gone to a four year college and have not gone through the training an officer has.

To Answer Your question, NCO and Conscript Officer are probably the same thing.

_____________

So yes, I agree that the 'officer' kit should be named something else, like an NCO or Squad leader.

It really depends on how large a force "In effect" is being led.

In my opinion, there are only 6 guys maximum to a section of the entire team. This means that that small section is only going against another small section. This should be a fireteam at the very least and a squad at the very most. The kit it is led by really depends on the designation of the size of the section.

I vote for "Fireteam Leader."

[loki1120]

i checked the already suggested section and didnt see this so here it goes ( dont know if this much of a change on the kit system is posible though.

log in(spawnable) kits:

LDR or Leaders Kit (ACOG & RED DOT)

Automatic Rifleman

Grenadier

LAT

Medic

Normal Rifleman


Limited Kits:

HAT= 4?

Logistical Crew only as many as ther are vehicle seats.(for logi trucks and transports w/o weapons mounted)

VEHICLE CREW only as man as there are vehicle seats. (All Combat Vehicles even Humers since the new Up Armored Humers require spcial training)

BOAT CREW LEADER= 1 per Boat (and is only one alowed to drive)
BOAT CREW only as many as there are vehicle seats. (for new SWCC??? )

PILOT= to number of Aircraft pilot seats

ENGINIER= 4?

SNIPER= 1 per side

SPOTER= 1 per side

marksman= 2 per side

[Elektro]

Logistical Crew (for logi trucks

why on earth would we need a kit to drive a logistics truck

[Acemantura]

I also vote for Loki's post...minus the Logi kit. I think maybe he had a brain fart.

Or maybe he thought that a logi kit would force players to take logitics seriously.

Ok I vote for Loki's post comepletely.

Make it officialy Loki, post that bad boy in a comepletely new thread.

[loki1120]

so that people dont miss use them like take them and just use them for trans for just 2 guys instead of being part of a support/defense/supply squad.........( i know i know, its sad, but there is still some childish behavior going on... " sad face " )

[loki1120]

Roger that

[Elektro]

so that people dont miss use them like take them and just use them for trans for just 2 guys instead of being part of a support/defense/supply squad "

So when i want to place FOBs here and there, i should take a logi kit, drive to my destination drop crates get engi kit place what ever i want to place, and get logi kit again to then lose the engi kit?

[loki1120]

no, you call for a supply run from the SDS squad, they get you a crate, you as teh sqd leader designate the build and then your guys build it up. incereases teamwork, logistics ect.

[Elektro]

no, you call for a supply run from the SDS squad, they get you a crate

What if there is no SDS squad?

[Acemantura]

Then your team loses

We need an R-MOD in here to clean this bad boi up.

*I"M ON IT!!!*

[billdan]

completely agree with OP

also,
do NCO's get issued side arms as is currently depicted? I thought only commisioned officers were issued sidearms.

If NCO's are not issued sidearms, shouldn't the marine SL kit be using the M16A4, not the M4, since only Marine officers are being issued the M4??

and yeah the fact that captains, who are usually company commanders, are leading fireteams/squads in PR really bugs me.

[Herbiie]

and yeah the fact that captains, who are usually company commanders, are leading fireteams/squads in PR really bugs me.

1) Why? does it matter?
2) A Squad in PR is more than just 6 guys. How ever many times you respawn is another person - it could end up about 50 guys, which is almost a pair of platoons.

[billdan]

a SL is still only in charge of up to 5 players at any given time,

when you respawn, your body from your previous life has died and will not continue fighting.

6 people cannot represent 50 people, especially with the beta RP changes.

What's wrong with some simple kit icon and name changes? It's a nice little touch that can easily be done without extra modeling/skinning/complex coding.

[Acemantura]

What's wrong with some simple kit icon and name changes?

Nothing. Do It.