In-squad kit stealers.

[doop-de-doo]

I understand that this topic may have already been discussed and wrapped up. I did a search but haven't found anything dedicated.

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I'm wondering about what to do about kit stealers within squads. People that walk in, take a limited kit, don't work with the squad and get kicked out; but are still able to get away literally scot-free with the kit. Limiting kits to specific squad sizes doesn't work in this situation.

If you can get penalized for getting into a tank gun position without a driver, is there a fair penalty for these players? You are also penalized if you TK someone and take his kit.

I know there are situations where people get disconnected or leave and your squad shrinks unexpectedly, just as you can lose your driver in a tank.

If the player joins, explains his plan (make a small demolition/sniper/whatever squad) and the squad leader agrees, then all is well. Only that this almost never happens, so the player jumps in and is off on his own. That's why I'm posting this thread.

In the server I normally play on, a player has a time limit to join a squad or be kicked from the server. So, in a way that settles the matter somewhat...but the *limited* kit was still taken... Maybe this kind of thing is supposed to be managed by server admins, dunno.

[Acemantura]

The most quick and sensible fix is to rely on good server admins, and in my opinion every server should have such admins.

So I guess the only thing the DEV's and you can do is push proper server moderation, seeing as it would be a waste of resources to add such measures in game if there is already a fix.

However to argue for your suggestion I would say, "What about a loss of connection/kick cycle for kits." In which if a person is either kicked or loses their connection or both, the kit is immediately put back into circulation after the kit disappears from the map.

This is, of course, to alleviate the time it would normally take to get the kit back from a legitimate kick.

[doop-de-doo]

The admins of the server I play in are excellent and I'll talk to them.

I see your point in regards to kit recycle time. In the case of limited kits, i.e. HAT/LAT, I know people are happy to know that one of those kits will not be available for some time when you take one out; but as far as lost connection/kicks go, losing a kit is one of those things you end up accepting over time... I don't know if there is code that can register if the kit was lost under those circumstances and automatically recycle them.

[Gore]

I think it's okay when it's a squad that push eachother away like magnets and doing their own thing, all spread out from A1 to H8, they don't deserve special kits anyway. But when joining a good dedicated squad, it should be punished. It's annoying as hell.

[M.Warren]

To be honest, the only kit I'd ever be concerned about losing is the Medic. Most players usually grab what fits their fancy which is usually combat-orientated that hits the hardest or sprays the most.

I've gone on to join squads before and snatch up a Sniper Kit myself. *Gasp* Did he just say Sniper Kit?

Usually I take it upon myself to do so. And despite the initial and otherwise uncontrollable amount of stereotypical smack talk and/or bashing that may ensue, I still do my job. And more than half the time usually ends up being far more beneficial than the squad I had taken it from in the first place. Why? Because it doesn't take a scoreboard to let you know when you've really struck a decisive blow.

And when I say "doing my job" it's as in relaying messages to the commander (when there is one) and identifying hostile infantry and vehicle movements. Including multiple times where successful artillery or mortar attacks had taken out strategic targets and cache locations. And occasionally surgically installing a 7.62 round into a gunner on a hostile technical that would have otherwise killed off 3-4 friendly soldiers.

But anyways, kit stealing can be potentially annoying. But what I find to be more annoying is the fact that most PR players can only be concerned with the people within their own squad. Heaven forbid they think about working with players outside of their squad by potentially increasing firepower and resilience for their own squad by combining their efforts with available manpower within the area. But instead continue to think as if a single kit is going to sway the entirety of a battle in their favor.

As long as you have an Officer kit and a Medic kit (both of which is barely stolen at times) you'll make due. If it takes more than that, then you need to work on your tactics. And if you manage to get shot and killed, then it seems that the other team is performing their role better. Wouldn't you say?

[mat552]

Warren, do you join the squad without saying a word, grab your kit, then leave without so much as a letter spoken?

If so, that's simply rude. The message to the squad leader is a loud and clear "F*ck you." That goes for all kits, but the sniper is an even larger slap in the face, because it merely serves to further the impression that sniper's behavior is carrying over from vbf2. That in turn diminishes the efforts of people like me who ask permission, stick with the squad, and work our asses off so that when we do ask our SLs for the kit, those SLs know snipers as a whole can be dependable and useful assets to have in a squad. (Sorry if that's not your SOP, it's just what I inferred from your text. The points still stand.)

[Claymore]

I have to agree with Warren here. Unlike most people, I like playing as medic but it's a very frustrating job if the squadleader constantly leads the squad to destruction, squad members die in open areas where you can't revive them and the team in general doesn't care about logistics and building firebases. In such a case I sometimes steal one of the following kits:

Combat engineer - building firebases, providing repairs, dropping supply crates
Sniper - lasing targets, providing intel, hunting enemy hat or spotter kits

I have seen some very experienced players soloing with HAT, for example and their contribution to the team was great, mainly because they didn't loose the kit every now and then. Squad as a whole is often engaged in situations that a HAT or AA would try to avoid.

Sometimes I steal one of the support kits when in a good team but with no more room in squads where I'd be useful ( = not the air trans squad with 5 members and 1 heli or a squad that talks in russian or some other language that I don't understand properly, which would make me a burden on SL's shoulders).

I am not trying to be devil's advocate here but I don't think snipers work well when inside an infantry squad. And they have to join a squad in order to get a kit that works best when outside it so... guess the conclusion is clear. I have never seen a sniper to provide useful covering fire to his squad because:
The weapon takes too long to properly aim
It requires the sniper to constanly relocate in order to keep a visual contact with the squad, which is very dangerous

[doop-de-doo]

Allow me to add one more observation.

* It's not just players, who I take as babes in the woods, taking kits that were not needed/requested by the SL in an independent manner. (I say independent with two end results in mind; not talking to the SL, & usually in return, not listening to the SL. Therefore, they are possibly not really interested in close participation with the squad.)
* It's the fact that Limited kits are not available for that squad once it has been taken. It may never be used but, then again, if people consistently joined your squad as a medic, or AR and couldn't work with the squad it's going to have repercussions. It's bad form in the end.

I should have, but haven't, tested whether a kit will be available to a squad if a member with a limited kit has been removed from the squad. If it isn't available, then this, as you see, is almost paramount to squad sabotage.

There are situations where another squad will come in, and be able to revive your squad using your medic kit but will not have opportunity to return the kit.

I believe what I would like is a way to tell these people (thinks a huge blinking billboard) that this kind of behavior is not appreciated for the most part.

[Claymore]

I think the behavior should be separated into 2 cathegories.

1, squad members that join to get a kit they like, they stay in the squad and act on their own. Even if they play well, they just occupy a place in a squad that might be needed by someone else. On TG, they report and kick people that do this.

2, squad members that join and then go away with a kit they wanted. I guess here it depends on the kit they've taken from the squad. Taking a sniper kit from an infantry squad would be definitely something else than taking it from a CAS / Spotter squad. And while CAS / Spotter squad would't mind if you go away with a grenade launcher / AR / Marksman, it would be a disadvantage for the infantry squad, which might need one sooner or later. People here seem to talk about the medic kit but the only time I've seen someone from a friendly team steal it was by accident (it's not very popular so that's why I play as medic).

[LeadMagnet]

We can mod the game, not the players unfortunately.

[Zulnex]

We can mod the game, not the players unfortunately.

That is so true. In my case, whenever I join a squad and there are a few kits available to choose from, I always ask my SL about which kit should I take (most useful for a particular map). Many times players join squads, take their kits and leave, which is truly frustrating.

[BogusBoo]

I hate these types, i wish i could do something about it other than kick them from my squad, or tell admins (which never works unfortunately).

[mat552]

2, squad members that join and then go away with a kit they wanted.

This is also something that is reportable and kickable in TGs server. (And I wouldn't have it any other way <3)

[Kim Jong ill]

If I want the sniper kit I'll usually join an inf squad and explain to the squad leader that I joined to grab a sniper kit then I'll leave to free up another spot, if he wants me to stay then I will. The reason for this is on the server I play on (BigD) you aren't allowed to lock squads, so If I create a squad which is supposed to be a 2 man sniper team I'll get a bunch of tards rushing in and I wont be able to do my job. If I grab the sniper kit then wait a while to create my own squad this isn't a problem and I can usually find another player to help me spot.

As I sniper I find that I communicate with the rest of my team a hell of a lot more then the standard infantry squads who only seem to give a shit about themselves and what they're doing. So if that ain't teamwork I don't know what is.