replace taliban's lee en field

[Jaymz]

I'v seen a lot videos of people getting shot up real bad and coming out with only minor wounds and just really bruised up from the bullets impact at ranges of 150+

I have several friends that would speak to the contrary from first hand experience. One had his interceptor plate pierced by a single AK round and he lost a kidney because of it. Another saw a single round go through his comrade's arm, armour plate, and torso (he wasn't allowed to tell me the weapon used for OPSEC reasons, but it happened in CQB which most likely rules out the heavy stuff).

It's all dependant on dozens of factors. This also isn't even touching the point that we can't simulate the effect that a successfully blocked round would have on the wearer (severely winded if not knocked to the ground). The words of one of our MA's spoken to me on mumble a while back comes to mind : "try holding a phone book up to your chest, then getting the strongest guy you know to hit it with a baseball bat".

[boilerrat]

.303 British / 7.7x57R - 3120J muzzle energy
7.62x54R - 3214J muzzle energy

So, almost nothing. There's a video floating around of a guy taking an SVD round to the chest and being able to capture the guy who shot him afterward. Ceramic plating stops almost every round until you get into the .50 caliber range. At least the first one. The only real dangerous rounds to ceramic plating may be the .338 lapua and the newly developed 9.3x64 round, which is shot from the SVD-K.

He had like a 17lb bullet vest on him, he was standing next to a humvee and was shot in the chest....fell to the ground without injury, his squad fired on the sniper who then fled and they found him in someone's backyard and the man who was shot by the sniper captured him and they gave him medical treatment.


I'm pretty sure it was on liveleak and I saw it on the military channel.

[HAAN4]

I agree with a replacement, either that or it needs to kill in one hit, FH2 style.

Firing at a target from a distance is difficult due to deviation, iron sights (and their general suckiness above 50m) and opponents having scoped weaponry. The other taliban weaponry has semi-auto fire so you can follow up shots quickly if you miss. With the enfield, you can't afford to miss, you fire and the enemy knows where you are instantly. Even if you hit, you need to place another shot on the same guy before he manages to shoot you or run into cover for a medic.

Having a bad weapon for a medic doesn't sound too bad in theory as it is their job to heal a squad and keep them fighting. The most important thing wrong with the taliban medic is it's inablity to defend himself. Nearly every single time I have attempted to wait in cover for the enemy to appear for a clean shot, the enemy turns and shoots me before I can get a second shot off accurately. Either that or they've already scoped up on me when I'm aiming at them. Here's what happened when 1 TIME I got a kill on someone approaching me:
"HEY GUYS, JESUS CHRIST, I GOT A KILL WITH THE ENFIELD! I ACTUALLY HAVE A KILL, 1-11 FUCK YEAH"

My suggestion for a replacement is the humble SKS, less desirable than an AK while still sucking enough for a medic. With the SKS, kills are a little more difficult than with an AK but still easy to get if you ambush opponents or wait in defence.

you are forguthing something, EN lee will not kill in one shoot, because one thing.

ARMOR, in forgothen hope there is no armor IMO...

[Herbiie]

ARMOR, in forgothen hope there is no armor IMO...

There's no way in hell you will be fighting after being hit by a .303, body armour or not.

[Katarn]

There's no way in hell you will be fighting after being hit by a .303, body armour or not.

There's even a video on the net of a guy doing just that.

[Anhkhoa]

Where has anyone said that it is over powered if we put it at its realistic capabilities. Have you ever thought that maybe it is bugged?

Hmm...it seems the Enfield is not firing a .303/7.7x56R.

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.animationSystem1P Objects/Weapons/Handheld/insgr_enfield/AnimationSystem1p.inc
ObjectTemplate.animationSystem3P Objects/Weapons/Handheld/insgr_enfield/AnimationSystem3p.inc
ObjectTemplate.projectileTemplate [b][u]762_51[/u][/b]
ObjectTemplate.keepProjectiles 5
ObjectTemplate.velocity 744
ObjectTemplate.itemIndex 3
ObjectTemplate.delayToUse 2.3

[Eddie Baker]

Hmm...it seems the Enfield is not firing a .303/7.7x56R.

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.animationSystem1P Objects/Weapons/Handheld/insgr_enfield/AnimationSystem1p.inc
ObjectTemplate.animationSystem3P Objects/Weapons/Handheld/insgr_enfield/AnimationSystem3p.inc
ObjectTemplate.projectileTemplate [b][u]762_51[/u][/b]
ObjectTemplate.keepProjectiles 5
ObjectTemplate.velocity 744
ObjectTemplate.itemIndex 3
ObjectTemplate.delayToUse 2.3

Because it isn't worth making a separate damage properties template for it when its ballistic performance in real-life is not significantly different to the 7.62 x 51mm and 7.62 x 54mm.

.303 British Service (Mk 7 Ball)
Cartridge Dimensions: 7.7 x 56mm
Projectile Weight: 174 grains (11.3 g)
Muzzle Velocity: 2,440 ft/s (740 m/s)
Muzzle Energy (if you believe in it): 2,310 ft-lb (3131.89J)

7.62mm NATO / .308 Winchester (US M80 Ball)
Cartridge Dimensions: 7.62 x 51mm
Projectile Weight: 149 grains (9.7 g)
Muzzle Velocity: 2800 fps (853 m/s)
Muzzle Energy: 2593 ft-lb. (3516J)

7.62mm Mosin-Nagant / Soviet Rimmed (7N13 Enhanced Penetration Ball)
Cartridge Dimensions: 7.62 x 54mm
Projectile Weight: 145 grains (9.4 g)
Muzzle Velocity: 2716.53 fps (828 m/s)
Muzzle Energy: INA

Sources:
7.62mm CARTRIDGES | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces
Dockery, Kevin. Compendium of Modern Firearms
History of the .303 British Calibre Service Ammunition Round

[gazzthompson]

There's no way in hell you will be fighting after being hit by a .303, body armour or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQ20qGAjjY

assuming its a SVD being used, that fires 7.62 x 54mm. which as you can see above has same sort of performance as .303

[Bringerof_D]

insurgent with an STG-44, Friggin awesome

[ReadMenace]

*SNIP* Insert Statistical Data Here *SNIP*

For the thousandth time...
I swear half of my posts are in regards to people's overblown ideas surrounding .303 British.

What book/TV show/urban legend/collective delusion has everyone been exposed to that makes them think that the .303 is amazing???

I see no problem with the Enfield's continued use.

-REad

[Hunt3r]

We all know that the Enfield doesn't need to be replaced, but it needs some accuracy and damage tweaking to make it more realistic in terms of how it would behave.

Make it powerful and accurate. One shot kill, deviation that settles within 5 seconds, and would be laser accurate. You only have one shot, and it counts.

[gazzthompson]

well hunter, as you can see by mr bakers post the current power is fine as it is.

[RHYS4190]

if you not going to up the damage then change the medic's gun at least test in on pub server and see what happens. im pretty sure if you did change it a lot more people would go medic.

[DankE_SPB]

if you not going to up the damage then change the medic's gun at least test in on pub server and see what happens. im pretty sure if you did change it a lot more people would go medic.

meh, its like give HAT to medic, so more people would go medic

the thing is if you make medic rifle very strong its doesnt mean you'll see more medics on the ground, well, there will be more medics, but they wont heal/revive you anyway, because they will be busy snipering around

[Alex6714]

I think people also miss the point that it's 2 shots to wound somone in game. The can still just be revived and run away. As I said before, 1 shot to crtically wounded would make more sense or 2 shots to complete death, but 3 shots and the guy could still be running around.

And if you go for gameplay balance then giving a bolt action rifle the same characteristics as the g3 more or less doesn't make sense.

You shouldn't need a better gun to get people to go medic but the gun he has should be either realistic sensibly or balanced.

[Eddie Baker]

What book/TV show/urban legend/collective delusion has everyone been exposed to that makes them think that the .303 is amazing???

Yeah, it isn't like the Martini-Henry, which had Zulu to give it the status of Mjolnir. The only reason I can think of? Staring at photos of the Queen and the Union Jack (Clockwork Orange style) for too long.

[Snook]

Can I ask what the settling times are for both scoped and unscoped Lee Enfields? I presume scoped is the same as other sniper rifles?

[H.sta]

shouldn't the medic get a gun that can be used in close combat, as it is now i often only meet enemies in close combat while trying to heal someone, the lee enfield doesn't do well in these situations