[Map] Ambush at Al Fashar (4km) [WIP]

[xxXmsgt_jimbobXxx]

Hi all,
Im beginning this thread because im going to start a new community map and i figured their might be someone interested in what i am doing

Size:4km
Factions:US vs Taliban
Location: Afghanistan
Type: Insurgency
Roles: Mechanized inf w cas

Main Bases: 1 Medium US spawnable inf outpost which will have a helipad, but no spawning helicopters just rearming (Think fallujah west plus helipad) some vehicles
1 Large US Airfield with all air assets and the vehicle assets not at inf outpost (think Kashan)
1 Taliban Training camp

^^^^^ ik ur saying "WHAT? TWO US MAINS?" i realize that this is rather much to take in so im probably going to change the size of the med inf outpost w helipad to the size of the karbala main instead of the fallujah main. It will play more like the VCP on al basrah.

Map geography:
Many poppy fields w a small town in the center, a UN outpost to the north, 2 us bases to the south, 1 insurgent camp north east w many tunnels leading to the village, and irrigation ditches all throughout many berms seperate the poppy fields.

** i want to make a un aide car that both factions can drive. it will be modeled like the Red Cross suv on fallujah west. neither team can know who is driving it without looking on the map and/or proper communications, which should make for an interesting experience. road checkpoints will become much more practical for US


^^^^these are all PRELIMINARY PLANS. im not sure what the exact numbers or vehicles will be. all info is subject to change!!!

[Amok@ndy]

2 Kiowa (i am planning on making this it will have 30 hydra and 600 minigun. more armor than littlebird, less than huey. faster than both lb and huey)

you created a Kiowa ? OH-58 ? or how can you decide which equipment it will have ?

[DankE_SPB]

1. vehicle layout is ridiculous, even for initial "guesstimation"
2. can we see some kind of plan for map CP layout and terrain?

[Anhkhoa]

Hi all,
Im beginning this thread because im going to start a new community map and i figured their might be someone interested in what i am doing

Size:4km
Factions:US vs Taliban
Location: Afghanistan
Type: Insurgency
Roles: Mechanized inf w cas

Motorized. Mechanized is tanks and APCs. Motorized is with wheeled vehicles (What you have.)

Main Bases: 1 Medium US spawnable inf outpost which will have a helipad, but no spawning helicopters just rearming (Think fallujah west plus helipad) some vehicles
1 Large US Airfield with all air assets and the vehicle assets not at inf outpost (think Kashan)
1 Taliban Training camp

^^^^^ ik ur saying "WHAT? TWO US MAINS?" i realize that this is rather much to take in so im probably going to change the size of the med inf outpost w helipad to the size of the karbala main instead of the fallujah main. It will play more like the VCP on al basrah.
4 HMMV (.50)
3 HMMV (Pure trans like on karbala)
2 Logi Trucks
2 Kiowa (i am planning on making this it will have 30 hydra and 600 minigun. more armor than littlebird, less than huey. faster than both lb and huey)

The Kiowa has two pylons, one on each side, to mount rockets. It cannot mount a mini-gun and there is no existing pod for 30 rockets in the US Arsenal. Also, faster than the Huey would be exceeding ~1000BF2 units..which is jet speed. Besides, PR already has a OH-58 from USi.
2 F15E (i want these to only have lazer guided bombs as the insurgents will only have shoulder fired stingers and will not be able to shoot them down. They will be an excellent asset for US none the less.
4 Huey (Trans)

Why would you have an F-15 if you know the Taliban have nothing agaisnt them? And from there, why include them in the map as a dumbed down version? Just for the "cool" factor?

INS vehicles **
5 Techis
5 bombcars
10 bikes
1 big red
15 cars (scattered in various points w at least 5 at training camp)

5 bomb cars and 1 Big Red for humvees and air vehicles? Your assymetrical counters are over doing it. Basrah has a Challenger 2, two Warrior APCs, and a Scimitar but only 3 bomb cars spawning and 1 Big Red.

Map geography:
Many poppy fields w a small town in the center, a UN outpost to the north*, 2 us bases to the south, 1 insurgent camp north east w many tunnels leading to the village, and irrigation ditches all throughout many berms seperate the poppy fields.

If you are going to have a 'base' in the Northeast and a village in center and making tunnels to connect the two, your going to force a lot of people to walk ~4 KM which many people are not willing to do. Unless, you have the tunnels drivable, which is quite frankly...stupid.

*Depending on who owns the un outpost, either ins will get 1 cache after 30 CONTINUOUS MIN of holding, or US will get 30 more tickets every thirty min. I think that the outpost on korengal was a good concept, but it did not add anything but distraction. this will hopefully improve on that idea and make it more of something for both sides to actually want to have some interesting engagements over
** i want to make a un aide car that both factions can drive. it will be modeled like the Red Cross suv on fallujah west. neither team can know who is driving it without looking on the map and/or proper communications, which should make for an interesting experience. road checkpoints will become much more practical for US

The Dev's do not like having a car for both factions. The car is visible as gray until one side gets into it. Then, it disappears from the map. "Instant car radar" , IIRC, one Dev said.

^^^^these are all PRELIMINARY PLANS. im not sure what the exact numbers or vehicles will be. all info is subject to change!!!

Do you have any experience modding with the BF2 engine, modeling, or mapping at all? Sorry, but I am doubting this as you have only 1 post on these forums. Because if this is your first map and you have it set as a 4x4, it is doomed to fail. Your overall asset "guess" is way overdone. Do you have any references to show us the approximate plan of the area you are going to do? When I look in Google, the closest match to Al Fashar is Al Fashir in Sudan.

Would you please post more details about the actual map your are making and the region it represents and less about the "things" including with it?

[badmojo420]

How were you planning on making a flag give tickets or a cache? And only make it happen every 30minutes.

[503]

The amount of assets for the US is outrageous. 8+ people dedicated to air assets on a 4km map leaves barely any infantry left. Make the map first, then consider the assets.

[=Toasted=]

I don't see the point really of having a secondary landing pad, its just another place for the US team to waste time defending.(unless of course its far in a corner of the map, and has a D.O.D. around it, making it pointless anyway, why not just land at main?). If the secondary base is out in the open though, why would the helicopters want to land there in the first place? Its not a safe location, and for all the pilot knows the pad could be swamped with IED's or RPG's waiting to ambush. I dont mind the idea of a second flag/base, just dont put a pad on it.

Anyway, hope you have the best of luck on your map.

[badmojo420]

I don't see the point really of having a secondary landing pad, its just another place for the US team to waste time defending.(unless of course its far in a corner of the map, and has a D.O.D. around it, making it pointless anyway, why not just land at main?). If the secondary base is out in the open though, why would the helicopters want to land there in the first place? Its not a safe location, and for all the pilot knows the pad could be swamped with IED's or RPG's waiting to ambush. I dont mind the idea of a second flag/base, just dont put a pad on it.

I actually like his idea of having 2 bases. One being the airport which would have a very strict dome of death so the aircraft are nice and safe when they spawn or are not in use. And then another "Forward" base where the land vehicles spawn, and its located much closer to the action.

That way, when a squad needs air transport, they could call in a helicopter (when its safe) that would come from the airport, land at the FOB and then take the squad to its destination. Instead of returning to the FOB, it just heads back to airport, to wait for the next squad that needs transport.

This would solve a couple issues. First of all a lone sniper could not call in the helicopter. Right now, it often happens that a pilot is bored enough that when a lone sniper gets in his helicopter, he'll agree to drop him somewhere. Which is counter productive to the team in most cases, since risking a bird for one sniper who'll most likely just lose the kit, is a waste.

Another issue is the camping of a main base. When the Taliban are camping the main on Archer for example, the Hueys barely have a chance to spawn before they're destroyed. Which isn't fun for anyone except the guy manning the 50cal. But at the same time, i love defending and attacking main bases, as infantry. So with 2 mains, one could be attacked without air assets being affected. And it would give a place to spawn, to anyone who does not wish to defend the FOB.

I was thinking about doing the 2 mains thing on my map, using a carrier as the airport, but i decided not to because its only a 2km map. But the idea is a good one IMO.

[xxXmsgt_jimbobXxx]

okay i really appreciate the feedback and criticism both. to address the issues
1)YES. I AM REALLY NEW TO THE MAPPING COMMUNITY. I understand that this is a really ambitious idea and therefore, I am going to tone it down abit.
2) Okay, that was a really good point that having 8 ppl a team dedicated to air assets would detract hugely from the gameplay.
3) i am eliminating all asset ideas until i make the map itself. ur right, i need to focus on MAKING the map, then i can focus on what to put on it.
4) i am going to leave the whole two outpost base thing as i have it. badmojo hit the nail right on the head with what i was trying to do with it.
5) the un outpost idea is going to be put on idle. im still going to make it put on the map and see if i cant talk to the devs to make it happen cuz i think it would be nice, but i need to take this one step at a time. until i can figure out how to make the ticket/cache thing work, it will just be another part of the map, but i will still try to do something with it to make it interesting.

IF people have any other comments/concerns i REALLY want to hear you. I want to make a FUN map, not just for myself, but for everyone. As i said earlier, i am rather new to the whole mapping scene, but i really want to try to work on this project and keep working on it. I will update this post regularly with my progress. if anybody would like to make any further suggestions, reply,pm,email me do whatever i really want ur feedback

i have changed topic header to reflect changes

[=Toasted=]

I actually like his idea of having 2 bases. One being the airport which would have a very strict dome of death so the aircraft are nice and safe when they spawn or are not in use. And then another "Forward" base where the land vehicles spawn, and its located much closer to the action.

That way, when a squad needs air transport, they could call in a helicopter (when its safe) that would come from the airport, land at the FOB and then take the squad to its destination. Instead of returning to the FOB, it just heads back to airport, to wait for the next squad that needs transport.

This would solve a couple issues. First of all a lone sniper could not call in the helicopter. Right now, it often happens that a pilot is bored enough that when a lone sniper gets in his helicopter, he'll agree to drop him somewhere. Which is counter productive to the team in most cases, since risking a bird for one sniper who'll most likely just lose the kit, is a waste.

Another issue is the camping of a main base. When the Taliban are camping the main on Archer for example, the Hueys barely have a chance to spawn before they're destroyed. Which isn't fun for anyone except the guy manning the 50cal. But at the same time, i love defending and attacking main bases, as infantry. So with 2 mains, one could be attacked without air assets being affected. And it would give a place to spawn, to anyone who does not wish to defend the FOB.

I was thinking about doing the 2 mains thing on my map, using a carrier as the airport, but i decided not to because its only a 2km map. But the idea is a good one IMO.

I see what your saying, but wouldn't the ground vehicles be the ones getting spawnkilled at the secondary base then? Unless theres a dome of death around it, its just going to be cluttered with mines and IED's, and the vehicles will be spawn killed, much like Fallujah is currently, minus the benifets of vantage points like Fallujah's main has (Large building thing). I just get extremely annoyed when a recentally spawned asset gets blown to bits before it gets a chance to even leave the area where it spawned.

Unless your saying that heavy assets such as APC's would reside at the "Main" spawn, and only few light troop transports or hummvees would spawn at the "Secondary" base.

[xxXmsgt_jimbobXxx]

Unless your saying that heavy assets such as APC's would reside at the "Main" spawn, and only few light troop transports or hummvees would spawn at the "Secondary" base.

That was pretty much the plan

like i said im new to this. i made this thread at such an early stage because i want ur input. plz give it.

[Snazz]

If I was motivated+committed+talented enough to contribute a PR map I would wait till I had something developed to show before making a topic here.

It's somewhat futile to seek relevant, useful feedback when there's nothing to analyze but a basic plan.

Obviously (as shown above) you can gain early advice and adjust the plan accordingly, but you could easily figure all that stuff out yourself just by reading through some of the 180+ existing map threads.

Basic things like not to initially focus on assets (as it's a dev decision in the end) have been said so many times it's not funny anymore.

Anyway, that said good luck and respect for giving it a go.

[>para<]

hey hey hey chill out all,you stress the guy from begining ,mate i wish you to finish the map and good luck with the mapping ,modeling and stuff

[xxXmsgt_jimbobXxx]

okay ill stop posting untill im almost done.

Basic things like not to initially focus on assets (as it's a dev decision in the end) have been said so many times it's not funny anymore.

i'm sry. im a 15 yr old trying to make his first map. i wasn't really trying to start offending ppl by making a thread this early. i took off the assets when somebody said something, and obviously ive been listening to ppl. to keep from getting yelled at im not going to post here anymore untill im almost finished. if u have any suggestions ill still read and reply as needed, but i will not post anything of my own till i get my terrain completely sculpted. i will still read and reply to this post as necessary but i wont post anything of my own until i have my terrain sculpted. im sry if i offended some1. im not upset w the ppl who r mad at me because i am self admittidly a noob, but im not going to try to show off my noobiness

[Snazz]

i'm sry. im a 15 yr old trying to make his first map. i wasn't really trying to start offending ppl by making a thread this early.

No need to apologize, I doubt anyone took offense to it. We're just critical and fussy PR players that are somewhat desensitized by countless threads like this. Don't take offense from us either it's nothing personal really.

i took off the assets when somebody said something, and obviously ive been listening to ppl.

That's recognized and appreciated, just by simply listening to us and revising your plan you've shown you can take constructive criticism.

to keep from getting yelled at im not going to post here anymore untill im almost finished.

Well personally I didn't mean it to come across as yelling, I was really just having a general observational rant about typical occurrences.

im sry if i offended some1. im not upset w the ppl who r mad at me because i am self admittidly a noob, but im not going to try to show off my noobiness

It's all cool mate, if anyone looks bad right now it's me for seemingly being harsh on a 15 year old newbie.

Anyway, you can post whenever you want about your ambitions/plans for the map. My point was basically that it's difficult to get relevant and useful feedback before presenting the map itself. Certainly not that you deserve to get harassed for it (or anything negative like that).

[badmojo420]

I see what your saying, but wouldn't the ground vehicles be the ones getting spawnkilled at the secondary base then? Unless theres a dome of death around it, its just going to be cluttered with mines and IED's, and the vehicles will be spawn killed, much like Fallujah is currently, minus the benifets of vantage points like Fallujah's main has (Large building thing). I just get extremely annoyed when a recentally spawned asset gets blown to bits before it gets a chance to even leave the area where it spawned.

Unless your saying that heavy assets such as APC's would reside at the "Main" spawn, and only few light troop transports or hummvees would spawn at the "Secondary" base.

It all depends on the terrain and setup of the bases. If the forward base was not exposed (Taliban can not see into the base) and they were just attacking people looking over the wall, or leaving the base, then I would say let everything except helicopters spawn there.

If it is like Archer where everything is open and the Taliban can get to a higher position and fire down onto you, then i would say just have the heaviest of assets, like APCs, 50cal humvess, etc. Because their fire support will be needed there. But they should spawn into covered positions.

The problem is really the helicopters, if they spawn into a base that is under attack, trying to take off is suicidal. And leaving it on the pad is just as bad if they can see in, and even if they can't look in, some idiot will eventually ignore the team chat and he'll take off into the 50cal fire.

Basically spawning a transport helicopter into a base that is under attack is taking responsibility away from the player. It should always be the actions of the player that put an asset in danger, not the setup of the map. If your going to have a main that can be attacked, no helicopters should be spawning there. But, that's just my opinion on the subject.

[xxXmsgt_jimbobXxx]

It's all cool mate, if anyone looks bad right now it's me for seemingly being harsh on a 15 year old newbie.

Anyway, you can post whenever you want about your ambitions/plans for the map. My point was basically that it's difficult to get relevant and useful feedback before presenting the map itself. Certainly not that you deserve to get harassed for it (or anything negative like that).

\

its all good man. i started reading some of the map threads like i shouldve in the first place, and if i saw **** like what i wrote earlier, id probably be privatly flipping a shit myself.

It all depends on the terrain and setup of the bases. If the forward base was not exposed (Taliban can not see into the base) and they were just attacking people looking over the wall, or leaving the base, then I would say let everything except helicopters spawn there.

If it is like Archer where everything is open and the Taliban can get to a higher position and fire down onto you, then i would say just have the heaviest of assets, like APCs, 50cal humvess, etc. Because their fire support will be needed there. But they should spawn into covered positions.

The problem is really the helicopters, if they spawn into a base that is under attack, trying to take off is suicidal. And leaving it on the pad is just as bad if they can see in, and even if they can't look in, some idiot will eventually ignore the team chat and he'll take off into the 50cal fire.

Basically spawning a transport helicopter into a base that is under attack is taking responsibility away from the player. It should always be the actions of the player that put an asset in danger, not the setup of the map. If your going to have a main that can be attacked, no helicopters should be spawning there. But, that's just my opinion on the subject.

i will b taking this into consideration when making the terrain surrounding the outpost. the whole point of this map was to try to encourage tw. i DONT want helos spawning where they will get raped, and the forward outpost was really supposed to be.... an outpost. nothing fancy, jst an outpost w a couple hmmvs, a helipad, and some buildings and mounted .50 cals. the main base will still be the primary source for all important vehicles, but the outpost would be a nice jump off point. as stated earlier, im not trying to factor vehicles in too much when making the map anymore, buti figure it is good to say what my VISION is so ppl can get the feel of the map as i was too stupid to get a rough terrain sculpt up b4 makin the thread

http://maps.google.com/maps?safe=active ... 4&t=h&z=15

here's a map of the area i want to use. its about 5km sw of the city of sar-e pol. i shall change map name accordingly

[BloodBane611]

That looks really good! The most important recommendation I would make at this point is that you shouldn't get caught up in the details. Have a general plan, but don't get bogged down with things, as it'll just frustrate you and make you not want to continue the map. I would definitely recommend that you check out Zeno's tutorial (found here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... heavy.html) on using some programs to come up with your terrain.

Good luck, can't wait to see some serious combined arms combat in afghanistan

[Rudd]

Hey buddy, 4k maps are a tall order for a novice, trust me on that, I have 3 4k map projects active at this time, one of which is getting quite far, one which is super slow, and another which is a bit of an experiment but has got good feedback.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... s-2km.html

read that thread to better understand the problems of 4k mapping

also, I recommend you follow this thread

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... audit.html

closely examine current PR maps and even try modifying them (for the purpose of learning) this is especially good for learning Gameplayobject stuff later on.

Looking at the area you're working on it might be good to try this tut
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... heavy.html

I've never done it before, but Zeno knows his stuff I think.

Good luck

[Amok@ndy]

The Kiowa has two pylons, one on each side, to mount rockets. It cannot mount a mini-gun and there is no existing pod for 30 rockets in the US Arsenal. Also, faster than the Huey would be exceeding ~1000BF2 units..which is jet speed. Besides, PR already has a OH-58 from USi.

The OH-58 can have a mounted .50 cal !!! maybe he meant this by 'minigun'