Adjustment ideas for FOBs, Grenades

[TheAmazingYant]

A pair of ideas that have been kicking around in my head for a little while: Having firebases be destroyed via a capture point-like mechanic where you would have to occupy a small radius for a relatively short period of time to destroy the base, and exchanging the current mechanism for adjusting the range of a grenade throw with a small selection of preset power levels (i.e. short-throw, medium-throw, and long-throw). What follows are my thoughts on the two matters for those who are interested in hearing my reasoning before rejecting my ideas outright.

- An adjustment to how FOBs are destroyed: I've always thought of firebases as not only a spawn point, but a means of projecting power. They allow a team to exert control over a sector of the map - HMGs, sandbags, barbed-wire, and SAMs all serve to restrict the opposition's ability to move and operate in the area.

The only problem is that one SOB with an incendiary grenade can sneak in and take out the FOB and it's spawn point with one lucky incendiary grenade. Thus the firebase is destroyed and the team's ability to project power and fight the enemy is severely diminished through one person's actions. In a team based game that just doesn't sit well with me.

It seems to me that, with v0.9 likely to put even more emphasis on firebases, the destruction of such a valuable asset should be more difficult. It should require the domination of the opposition in the area. You should have to forcefully drive the enemy out.

My idea is to have FOBs operate more akin to Capture Points. The firebase has a small capture radius - I would imagine something on the order of tens of meters - and a short capture time, like 60 man-seconds or whatever is deemed appropriate. The more guys you put in there, the faster the firebase dies. Players probably shouldn't be able to spawn in while the zone is occupied.

The effect is to make the firebase more resilient to suicide charges and ninja strikes: if a squad can stand around your firebase for a full minute then I believe it's fair to say that you've been overrun.


- Secondly, I think the way grenades work in this game just plain sucks. Tossing a short lob over a wall, or into the upper window of a building continues to vex me after two or three years of playing. You hold right-mouse and an invisible meter charges, determining how much velocity you throw your grenade with. I seem to be capable of two throws: The Brett Farve Hail-Mary and a little noodle-armed thing that lands at my feet (real fun when throwing molotovs, by the way). It seems to me to be similar to trying to kick a field goal in Madden, except the little kick-charge meter is invisible, and you don't know exactly when it starts charging after you snap the ball. And then the ball explodes.

My solution is to simply loose the charging meter, and instead just have you select handful of different throwing distances. Tie it to the fire-selection function so that instead of switching between semi-auto and burst, you switch between short, medium, and long.

It's not perfect, and I acknowledge that the mechanism is far from realistic. However, it would allow players to make precise throws with much less difficulty. And realistically, shouldn't a person be able to toss a grenade onto a rooftop without worrying that he was going to accidentally get himself and his friends killed?

[LithiumFox]

maybe more of a "If there are less than (for example) 4 people at the FOB and there are more than (for example) 5 enemies in a set radius, the FOB is deemed "Unspawnable". The 4 remaining people have to defend the FOB, but by driving the enemy team OUT of the radius, thus allowing the FOB to be SPAWNABLE. =)

Oh, and the enemy team would have to be in the radius for more than 30 seconds for it to count for anything.... > > but it wouldn't be a "If the enemy has more people than the defenders" I think so long as the defenders have a set amount, say 4 or 5 people, they should still be in "control" of the FOB. > >

so... in if-statements... here is how it should pan out


if (fob.DefendersInRadius) >= 5
spawn - (pretty much, if the defenders are about a squad large, this if statement would end right here. (just to explain to those who have never programmed))

else if (fob.AttackersInRadius) >= 5
countdown.begin(10000) (a countdown in milliseconds. > > I believe...... 10 seconds)

now... using 10 seconds as an example... if the Attacking team doesn't get there in time, the FOB becomes "Unspawnable."

I'd give maybe 30 seconds to allow for more decision making. An already warmed up blackhawk would be able to give backup, but in an all infantry map, they should've played better anyways. =/



> > I think this would give an amount of fairness to both teams in that the attackers would still have a chance to reclaim their FOB

Now, I think that their should also be a 20 seconds (give or take) countdown after completely driving off the defenders, that it takes for the FOB to be destroyed. If you give this time, a counter-attack by another squad (if they deemed necessary) could be held. Of course, they'd probably die unless they knew what they were up against.

This just gives the teams a little bit of freedom in deciding "Is that FOB THAT important to us? Do we really need to keep that location? Yes we should go for it, No we shouldnt, yes we can, but don't get killed. Defend it at all cost.

It gives a lot of choices, and that's something that is really really necessary in a game like this. =)

[Jedimushroom]

I'd like it if the FOB could be captured and used for your side, but I'm not sure how codeable that is.

[sylent/shooter]

well if u think about it. I
m pretty sure that most of the weapons on the FOB are capable of being taught to the OPFOR in like 5 minutes. and just like real war, and enemy Forward Operatins Base would not be destroyed but rather manned and uses as a command spot.

[killonsight95]

well if u think about it. I
m pretty sure that most of the weapons on the FOB are capable of being taught to the OPFOR in like 5 minutes. and just like real war, and enemy Forward Operatins Base would not be destroyed but rather manned and uses as a command spot.

very true i mean comeon gun are basicly point and shoot and reload and you could always birng your own radio system in


oh yeah good idea here:
would it be possible that you can only capture a firebase if your SL is there because he has that radio pack so he swap the radio pack and play on but he can only do this once before reloading the radio pack! how about it?
much like the rallies

[goguapsy]

A pair of ideas that have been kicking around in my head for a little while: Having firebases be destroyed via a capture point-like mechanic where you would have to occupy a small radius for a relatively short period of time to destroy the base, and exchanging the current mechanism for adjusting the range of a grenade throw with a small selection of preset power levels (i.e. short-throw, medium-throw, and long-throw). What follows are my thoughts on the two matters for those who are interested in hearing my reasoning before rejecting my ideas outright.

- An adjustment to how FOBs are destroyed: I've always thought of firebases as not only a spawn point, but a means of projecting power. They allow a team to exert control over a sector of the map - HMGs, sandbags, barbed-wire, and SAMs all serve to restrict the opposition's ability to move and operate in the area.

The only problem is that one SOB with an incendiary grenade can sneak in and take out the FOB and it's spawn point with one lucky incendiary grenade. Thus the firebase is destroyed and the team's ability to project power and fight the enemy is severely diminished through one person's actions. In a team based game that just doesn't sit well with me.

It seems to me that, with v0.9 likely to put even more emphasis on firebases, the destruction of such a valuable asset should be more difficult. It should require the domination of the opposition in the area. You should have to forcefully drive the enemy out.

My idea is to have FOBs operate more akin to Capture Points. The firebase has a small capture radius - I would imagine something on the order of tens of meters - and a short capture time, like 60 man-seconds or whatever is deemed appropriate. The more guys you put in there, the faster the firebase dies. Players probably shouldn't be able to spawn in while the zone is occupied.

The effect is to make the firebase more resilient to suicide charges and ninja strikes: if a squad can stand around your firebase for a full minute then I believe it's fair to say that you've been overrun.


- Secondly, I think the way grenades work in this game just plain sucks. Tossing a short lob over a wall, or into the upper window of a building continues to vex me after two or three years of playing. You hold right-mouse and an invisible meter charges, determining how much velocity you throw your grenade with. I seem to be capable of two throws: The Brett Farve Hail-Mary and a little noodle-armed thing that lands at my feet (real fun when throwing molotovs, by the way). It seems to me to be similar to trying to kick a field goal in Madden, except the little kick-charge meter is invisible, and you don't know exactly when it starts charging after you snap the ball. And then the ball explodes.

My solution is to simply loose the charging meter, and instead just have you select handful of different throwing distances. Tie it to the fire-selection function so that instead of switching between semi-auto and burst, you switch between short, medium, and long.

It's not perfect, and I acknowledge that the mechanism is far from realistic. However, it would allow players to make precise throws with much less difficulty. And realistically, shouldn't a person be able to toss a grenade onto a rooftop without worrying that he was going to accidentally get himself and his friends killed?

Though I like this FOB idea, it is worth mentioning the United States Special Forces: an Operation Detachment-Alpha (12 people) that are expecialized, along with other areas such as Guerilla Warfare, in sabotaging. Whether that be a triple A battery or a desalination plant, or even a spawn point. And they do that out-numbered. Also, if you read Sun Tzu's "Art of Warfare" he explains how to engage many with little, which is all geographic stuff. Not all appliable to PR but you get the idea. A person can hide and move and do the job unseen.



Now, you can say "But those guys are higly trained on that kind of stuff" now tell me... if the guy managed to sneak up to the FOB he has some skillz, or the defenders have tunnel vision.
If you mention the "lucky incendiary", you can quickly take care of him and shovel the FOB up. If there are more people in the "lucky incendiary" grenade that prevents you from shoveling it obviously means that they were planning on taking out that FOB and not a single guy with lack of skillz and patience.


Now, if you leave your FOB undefended, sorry. Bad for you, good for the opposite team.

BTW if you could implement the following:
FOB destroyed like it is today.
FOB captured if SL and other SMs stay near the FOB radius, and can be used as a spawn point for your team (meaning that you can have extra FOBs) - lets say that each team can build 6 FOBs. If a team captures one, they can still build six, but have that one they captured as well. Other words, 7, with up to 12 FOBs. If your team's FOB is captured, the FOB is still there meaning that you can only have 5 other FOBs, up to none.



About the grenades, there is a meter in the bottom left corner.

[rampo]

My solution is to simply loose the charging meter, and instead just have you select handful of different throwing distances. Tie it to the fire-selection function so that instead of switching between semi-auto and burst, you switch between short, medium, and long.

Not a bad idea, would love too see something like this in-game

[Rudd]

Not a bad idea, would love too see something like this in-game

I'd prefer it as a choice, I pride myself on my grenade accuracy.

[ma21212]

you could probably make the FOB have a "flag" so you could take it over like a normal flag in vBF2

[killonsight95]

Rudd suggested that once but for being able to see it purpeses but i'm nto sure if you could get the flag to "spawn" when you build it can you?

[rampo]

I'd prefer it as a choice, I pride myself on my grenade accuracy.

Remember the n00bs rudd, remember the n00bs

[BloodBane611]

Remember the n00bs rudd, remember the n00bs

Yeah, but don't forget the rest of us. Grenades are not hard to place effectively. For those who are having trouble: Practice, Practice, Practice

[Rudd]

Rudd suggested that once but for being able to see it purpeses but i'm nto sure if you could get the flag to "spawn" when you build it can you?

Rhino has said before that flags arne't dynamicly generated,

even all these AASv3 random CPs are placed by the mapper. (though each round selects a different selection)

[goguapsy]

Wait.. why can't we have like, 2 or 3 deployable FOBs like it is now and a couple of outposts (capable, with vehicles like suggested some time ago) that are also spawnable (works like an optional flag)?