Sniper Squads- call it a day!

[Merk]

Meh, too many people think snipers are some super powerful godly class from watching too many sniper movies.

I do so miss a real sniper squad, a one with a mic and a spotter that communicates with him and dose not come late.

Sometimes I had better communications playing Stock BF2 than PR when it came to sniping.

(Note: I know there are plenty of people that ARE good at this, Im just saying from my own personal experiences)

[ghettostankk]

I think what people easily forget is that people get the sniper kits or create sniper squads because that is fun to them. This is a game made for people to play and have fun.

99% of the time the sniper or sniper squad is completely useless to the team. Everyone knows this, except for the sniper squads. I think that's why people dislike the snipers so much.

It's fun to them so let then snipe away.

[AgentMongoose]

Just keep telling yourselves that gents.

Mind you most jerk offs who grab a sniper kit don't have a clue what they are doing...
But there are more then a few Highly skilled snipers out there.

[Joeziah]

can anyone point me to a developer thread on the .9 changes for snipers

I'm really hopeing to get that deployed sniper (similar to AR) for urban sniping or support in citys with your squad.

I love sniping but sniping from hills is laughable seeing as you float 6 feet off the ground and appear so easily to anyone with a decent eye. Ultimately we need to get static mountains and or more clutter in the cities so that people can somewhat decently hide.

/end sniper change rant.

As for sniper squads, yes they are useless cause half the time they don't communicate with the commander and provide intel, which is the only reason a sniper squad can really be justified.

their KDR is also evidence seeing as I never see snipers with either many kills and a decent amount of deaths.

[bloodthirsty_viking]

i was in that round with you ivan, on the other team, i remember you saying it was our teams sniper, not yours, and then after half an hours to an hour, a admin finnaly step in to stop the arguing and kicked the noobs, but the argument was something like

sniper kits are assets, its squad calls asset, we get it, and scince i was on the other team, i only heard parts of it, but still... its annoying how peaple can say this stuff, and then have the good ppl kicked, make sure you just contact an admin asap, imformhim of the information, and tell him that you had the kit before the squad was made...

i once had a jet with my squad as infintry, only becuase both jets were siting on the runway. i sat at base untill my squad set up a lazer, then i got airbon, strafed and hit the target, and landed, and i then got told to join a newly formed jet squad that had no tw, but complaned that scince i was in the jet i had to be in there squad...

there is really nothing you can do about it, other then make a blacklist of sorts and make sure to tell your squad- admin if someone who makes truble often joins the server, so an admin is aware and ready.

[Meza82]

imho all assets and and sniper kits shouldbe in properly designated squad. a sniper in a INF or CAS or ARMOR squad makes no sense. it is wasting assets.

y does every like the sniper kit so much anyway?

[Herbiie]

y does every like the sniper kit so much anyway?

Most (not all) are 'Nilla noobs who thinks snipers are the single best thing in the world. These people don't tend to bother with the forums though

Also because of the (stupid) glamorous nature of Snipers due to films such as "Enemy At The Gates" portraying them as the ultimate power on the battlefield, sneaking around, occasionally staying still to fire a few shots off.

IRL a sniper sets up positions and waaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiittttts, then fires a shot or two then picks up his empty cases, and moves stealthily, then sets up position again and waaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiits, then fires a shot or two etc. etc.

[Heskey]

Herbiie heskey already said in another post that he relocates.

Thanks Cheditor; seems to be more common these days that people don't like to read my posts fully but reply to them anyway

Herbiie, I don't like spotters because (some reasons already mentioned):

1.) Snipers have binocs (GLTD's now), so don't need someone to do it for them - Deviation isn't that much of a problem because I'm not a fan of 'blink-and-you'll-miss-them' targets; gotta take your time! Worst comes to worst, I just use the sniper scope.

2.) I know how boring it is to spend a round looking through some binocs whilst someone else gets kills etc, so I don't will it on others.

3.) Siloettes, increased chance of getting seen; having to worry about the movements and actions of your 'tag along' than those of your own. If I'm in woods on my own and hear footsteps, I can prepare; if I'm with a spotter and hear footsteps... It could be his, it could be the guy that didn't see me, but saw my spotter and gets me as a bonus too...

I'm just not a fan of spotters, I don't think they add anything to a sniper's ability; if you need to relocate you do it quietly and with stealth. If you absolutely have to kill someone you have a pistol or your rifle. Someone with an unsilenced semi-automatic trailing behind, if anything, is detrimental to a good sniper's work.

[Rudd]

y does every like the sniper kit so much anyway?

I love it when a good sniper is on my team telling us where stuff is and providing effective long range support from our rear.

A bad sniper is no different that som1 running off with a humvee or a HAT.

[Heskey]

I love it when a good sniper is on my team telling us where stuff is and providing effective long range support from our rear.

Amen.

I tend to operate behind their lines though to stop certain assets reaching the front line.

For instance, I'll tell the team when a tank in en route, or any vehicle in-fact...

But if they're relatively alone, or I think I can get away with it, I'll pop an Officer, Medic, Sniper or HAT, and the absolute BEST is when solo crewmen, or crewmen of a damage vehicle jump out of their vehicle for some reason (like to use a field dressing, to cut the engine, or survey their surroundings) aaaaaand POP. One big-*** vehicle now stranded in the middle of the battlefield, and any attempts to rescue it will result in similar head-popping.

[Herbiie]

Thanks Cheditor; seems to be more common these days that people don't like to read my posts fully but reply to them anyway

Herbiie, I don't like spotters because (some reasons already mentioned):

1.) Snipers have binocs (GLTD's now), so don't need someone to do it for them - Deviation isn't that much of a problem because I'm not a fan of 'blink-and-you'll-miss-them' targets; gotta take your time! Worst comes to worst, I just use the sniper scope.

2.) I know how boring it is to spend a round looking through some binocs whilst someone else gets kills etc, so I don't will it on others.

3.) Siloettes, increased chance of getting seen; having to worry about the movements and actions of your 'tag along' than those of your own. If I'm in woods on my own and hear footsteps, I can prepare; if I'm with a spotter and hear footsteps... It could be his, it could be the guy that didn't see me, but saw my spotter and gets me as a bonus too...

I'm just not a fan of spotters, I don't think they add anything to a sniper's ability; if you need to relocate you do it quietly and with stealth. If you absolutely have to kill someone you have a pistol or your rifle. Someone with an unsilenced semi-automatic trailing behind, if anything, is detrimental to a good sniper's work.

Hesky seriously stop trying to defend lone wolfing, you have Binocs - fine, what happens when you spot an enemy target that needs taking out? Say an MG that's pinnign down a squad? That's get the Rifle out and wait 8 seconds (or w.e) before you fire - much quicker to have your spotter spot it then you then you can take out that MG before the friendly squad takes casualties.

You're number 2 is pathetic.... it's not boring being a spotter if you're in a decent sniper team, not every one is just going "Zomg I must get killz". Also why do you instantly assume you have to look after your spotter? The spotter has a brain you know, a good spotter won't be seen (like a good sniper).

There's still absolutely no reason to be a lone wolfer - the BEST sniper teams ALWAYS have a spotter. 2 pairs of eyes can also see alot more than 1 pair of eyes.

Also stop coming out with the same points because all that's going to happen is I answer them in the same way

[Scot]

Without a Spotter to protect him? That's not good

Having played this game since 0.4 or so, I can say that sadly, players aren't always situationally aware, and if you are 1 person, it's way easier to relocate than if you are 2, because being honest, the spotter doesn't protect you, because if a squad spots you, you're pretty much screwed by numbers. The spotter is just adding to the chances you get spotted. They worked when snipers didn't have GLTD, but now not so much. The only thing they are useful for is if you need a grapple, but meh. 2 of the most successful snipers from the PRT work alone, one being an 19 guy from Yorkshire, the other an ex-Marine sniper, both work alone, both are insane snipers. Granted, sniper teams can work better, but I'd trust these two working alone over any sniper team.

[Boris.T.Spider]

when solo crewmen, or crewmen of a damage vehicle jump out of their vehicle for some reason (like to use a field dressing, to cut the engine, or survey their surroundings) aaaaaand POP. One big-*** vehicle now stranded in the middle of the battlefield, and any attempts to rescue it will result in similar head-popping.

Doesnt the gunner just press F1 and drive to a FB to pick his driver up? For crying out loud, who the hell are you shooting at mate, your probably best off leaving them alive, they sound like more of a hinderance to their own team than a threat to yours!!

[Heskey]

Hesky

It's Heskey.

seriously stop trying to defend lone wolfing

Hey I hate lone wolfing as much as the next guy, but a sniper has one friend with him wherever he goes; his rifle! If someone IS gonna not play as part of the wider close-knit team (in terms of as a squad or vehicle crew), I'd rather they did it alone rather than, as someone earlier said, takes a further 3% of our team with them.

what happens when you spot an enemy target that needs taking out? Say an MG that's pinnign down a squad? That's get the Rifle out and wait 8 seconds (or w.e) before you fire - much quicker to have your spotter spot it then you then you can take out that MG before the friendly squad takes casualties.

Okay in a hypothetical situation, but I can't say I've seen this happen. A squad should always have a medic with them, so casualties can be revived and if the squad had sense, as you say they'll be pinned down as opposed to be being mowed down... Which gives you that time to switch to your rifle and wait.

Binocs are handy for scanning vast uninteresting terrain for signs of life; chances are I'll notice an MG nest without them, and if I've seen an MG nest you can bet I'll be watching it with interest. I don't think an MG emplacement's position is going to surprise anyone.

You're number 2 is pathetic.... it's not boring being a spotter if you're in a decent sniper team, not every one is just going "Zomg I must get killz". Also why do you instantly assume you have to look after your spotter? The spotter has a brain you know, a good spotter won't be seen (like a good sniper).

Thanks once again for taking a valid point as branding it pathetic rather than simply disagreeing with it =]

Hopefully you'll have gleamed from my post at the bottom of the last page that I neither am about the kill count; 'best value' is what I'm after!

And I instantly assume because that's what my vast experience of playing PR tells me; I'd just rather not run the risk - And I don't think I'm out of line in saying most of the community will probably share that view.

There's still absolutely no reason to be a lone wolfer - the BEST sniper teams ALWAYS have a spotter. 2 pairs of eyes can also see alot more than 1 pair of eyes.

Again, lone wolf no - Lone sniper sure; I agree with you in principle but in terms of practicality, I tend to disagree. That's not to say I'm against spotters; I'd happily take Rico or element with me any day; but as I've already said I'd feel guilty for boring them to death.

Also stop coming out with the same points because all that's going to happen is I answer them in the same way

Merry Christmas to you too

Doesnt the gunner just press F1 and drive to a FB to pick his driver up? For crying out loud, who the hell are you shooting at mate, your probably best off leaving them alive, they sound like more of a hinderance to their own team than a threat to yours!!

Haha you'd think so, wouldn't you? Let's say they just took a hat kit, vehicle's on fire, they make the decision to bail just as it blows up - Both are pretty badly injured... Pop pop.

Or they take a hit, are immobile and need to heal - One down immediately, the other can sit and bleed to death in an immobile vehicle risking another HAT hit, or go to whichever side he thinks is my blind side and risk getting popped by me for the sake of waiting to throw a bandage at his feet.

Obviously each situation has its own merits and are addressed accordingly haha.

[dtacs]

There are two types of snipers,

Those who make a sniper squad and spam chat with intel, lase locations, and movements,

And those who make a 'recon squad' and seem to take a vow of silence.

[gazzthompson]

the latter being 99.9% of current usage of the kit.

So i used the kit again yesterday, again on fallujah (TG) and me being me i was awesome and used the kit to its correct function. spotted 3 hideouts, killed a RPG gunner and IED guy in a fight and called arty destroying a cache. was fun, but i dont see the point in using the kit on most "terrain" maps because half of the stuff you use as "cover" doesn't work so would rather just be mobile with a SL kit.

[Joeziah]

a sniper in an infantry squad is good, you basically get 5 spotters and you can cover them.

Most of my sniping is performed from 300-600meters. I like it better then marksmen simply cause it has a pistol and the rifle itself, though it takes longer to settle is much more accurate.

We really need a deployed sniper rifle damnit, being able to set up in the few buildings in this game that have interiors is useless if your deviation is like that crouching.

[archerfenris]

Only one guy in a sniper squad should really have a sniper rifle anyway... The other is best to have an officer's kit, just ignore them and notify an admin of what's happening

This. Snipers work in teams of two with one sniper and one spotter who uses a regular rifle. The spotter is there to protect the sniper and assist him. If there were only 2 guys they didn't need two sniper rifles.

HOWEVER. It really does bug me to see snipers in infantry squads. It's not a squad weapon. Your squad took it before a sniper squad was made so bully for you, and Kashan is not exactly a great map for snipers anyway. In fact it's rather pointless with so little infantry on that map. I can't imagine snipers lasting long on that map.

However (yes I used it again. Great transition word don't you think?), I think you need to consider how valuable of an asset a sniper squad who has their shit together really is. I remember the last time I rolled in a sniper squad we provided our team with valuable info. It took us some time to get into position without being seen but toward the end of the map we were the ones who reported the insurgent hideout and called in artillery on the cache. Plus taking out 10 of the most dangerous kits, RPGs, PKMs etc. So in fact I myself get bugged by snipers in infantry squads when the marksman is a perfectly good rifle and because snipers are to be used as described above.

[-.-Maverick-.-]

This. Snipers work in teams of two with one sniper and one spotter who uses a regular rifle. The spotter is there to protect the sniper and assist him. If there were only 2 guys they didn't need two sniper rifles.

HOWEVER. It really does bug me to see snipers in infantry squads. It's not a squad weapon. Your squad took it before a sniper squad was made so bully for you, and Kashan is not exactly a great map for snipers anyway. In fact it's rather pointless with so little infantry on that map. I can't imagine snipers lasting long on that map.

However (yes I used it again. Great transition word don't you think?), I think you need to consider how valuable of an asset a sniper squad who has their shit together really is. I remember the last time I rolled in a sniper squad we provided our team with valuable info. It took us some time to get into position without being seen but toward the end of the map we were the ones who reported the insurgent hideout and called in artillery on the cache. Plus taking out 10 of the most dangerous kits, RPGs, PKMs etc. So in fact I myself get bugged by snipers in infantry squads when the marksman is a perfectly good rifle and because snipers are to be used as described above.

Agree 1000% I hate snipers in INF squads for one simple reason. They always die and waste the kit. Inf squad have no use for a sniper. First he is wasting a squad slot, secondly he cant do CQB, if he is going to snipe he must either go alone somewhere (WRONG) or take another guy with him thus wasting TWO squad slots. So stick with the marksman, leave the sniper to hopefully good 2 man sniper spotter squads.

[Boris.T.Spider]

Dont see why a sniper cannot opperate in an infantry squad. I think that it is a misconception that a squad has to be 6 guys in a cluster to be effective. A sniper stealthing around behind or flanking your squad can often provide the suprise attack that pulls you back from the brink of defeat. And as snipers are considered by most to be lone wolves, his detection is unlikley to give the rest of the squad away. Realy I dont see why snipers need to be in their own squads, the only benifit they get is that they can place markers which makes it easier to report exact keypad locations. A 'good' sniper 'can' work with a squad, if he doesnt need to be holding the squad leaders hand. Other benifit is, should the need for CAS spotting arise, the SL doesnt need to drop everything, he can leave that for the sniper and continue on his primary mission.