Lower Anti Tank Mine Damage....

[USMCMIDN]

I looked under the search numerous times so if this suggestion is out there already I do not mean to upset the devs....

anyway

I am sick of seeing a Tank or a APC running over 1 anti tank mine and it completely destroying a tank or an APC.

Now the way a Anti Tank mine works is mainly damaging the treads of the tank and making it immobilized so that infantry can take it out with more anti tank weapons. Looking online and finding information on M1 Abrams being hit in the Gulf war (early 90s before any up grades to their armor was made) the tanks were simply immobilized with out any casualties looking for other tank casualties in Iraq 2003 1 Abram ran over a tank mine with over 1000 pounds of explosives and killed 2 members of the tank but even then it was not destroyed only disabled and immobilized (but this was with over 1000 pounds of explosives also) History of the M1 Abrams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suggest the anti tank mine only disables and immobilizes the tank with out any casualties toward the crew (insurgents can easily kill a immobile tank with RPGs and IED ive seen it done on Basra many a time)

Now with the APCs I suggest not only they be immobilized but the driver on the APCs be killed and the crew and gunner wounded and not killed this gives them a chance to heal up and repair the vehicle and the insurgents a better chance of killing them all (insurgents easily can kill an immobile APC ive seen it 100 times)...

if the engine cant do this maybe 1/3 of the apcs be completely destroyed and the rest be immobilized!

Google Image Result for http://www.dragoons.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/65581_102215563.jpg

https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPorta ... 0/appc.htm

I think this is more realistic and can make the game more like real life....

[Gore]

I think it's good as it is. Anti tank mines are also used for area denial. Damaging system in PR doesn't always work as intented, -If people can just drive over mines they'd be doing it all the time and putting down mines would be in vain.

I often have very bad luck predicting where to place the mines, and when I finally get a kill for it I believe I deserve that.

Always look out for mines.

[DankE_SPB]

^^totally support in case of tanks, give it only 50% damage(or at what rate vehicle gets critical)

Now with the APCs I suggest not only they be immobilized but the driver on the APCs be killed and the crew and gunner wounded and not killed this gives them a chance to heal up and repair the vehicle and the insurgents a better chance of killing them all (insurgents easily can kill an immobile APC ive seen it 100 times)...

this is debatable, 8 wheeled APC are very good in keeping mobility after AT mine, even if they are not new-gen with improved mine-protection
so i wouldn go as far as killing crew, immobility by itself will be enough

If people can just drive over mines they'd be doing it all the time and putting down mines would be in vain.

if you get immobilized by mine you cant simply drive over it, since you will be pretty much f*ed up
also, tanks are pretty wide, put 2 mines and it will get pwnd like now with 1 mine

[USMCMIDN]

Exactly but still even 2 anti tank mines still wound't kill a NATO tank lol I read someplace where a M1 Abram was hit by a 3000 lb IED and wasn't totally destroyed (it was still mobile and the crew survived) like I said the system needs to change I mean IRL NATO tanks are very hard to kill so are APC (to an extent) how many times was that M1 Abram hit by the T72s in Iraq and still made it w/o and deaths on the crew side? ? ?

once again if this was suggested already I tried looking and do not mean to get the devs mad!

[Gore]

if you get immobilized by mine you cant simply drive over it, since you will be pretty much f*ed up
also, tanks are pretty wide, put 2 mines and it will get pwnd like now with 1 mine

If they can get it to work I'm all for it, but it's almost certain there'll be a flaw with it.

[TheLean]

If tanks are not blown up and only immobilized the respawn system for tanks would not work. Thats why you sometimes see players blowing up trucks that are stuck etc, to get them to respawn back in main. Maybe give the tank crew a chance to escape before blowing up the tank is better.

[Brummy]

If tanks are not blown up and only immobilized the respawn system for tanks would not work. Thats why you sometimes see players blowing up trucks that are stuck etc, to get them to respawn back in main. Maybe give the tank crew a chance to escape before blowing up the tank is better.

Or you could repair it...

[DankE_SPB]

M1 Abram was hit by a 3000 lb IED and wasn't totally destroyed (it was still mobile and the crew survived)

if 3000lb IED blows up under tank, you can be sure it will be destroyed, unless IED was buried way too deep, look at it as a JDAM which fell far from tank, it might be powerful, but it wont damage it after certain distance

Exactly but still even 2 anti tank mines still wound't kill a tank

bear in mind engine limitations, for now the immobility is triggered when your vehicle HP reaches certain level, then there is a chance of failure, it could be turret block, immobility or both
so you will have to live with either 2 mines kill or it will be far easier to disable tank with other weapons

If they can get it to work I'm all for it, but it's almost certain there'll be a flaw with it.

yeah, ofc if it wont work, then leave as it is, but if its possible, would be great

[USMCMIDN]

If tanks are not blown up and only immobilized the respawn system for tanks would not work. Thats why you sometimes see players blowing up trucks that are stuck etc, to get them to respawn back in main. Maybe give the tank crew a chance to escape before blowing up the tank is better.

well thats the thing it forces the coalition forces to either repair it or destroy it like in real life... To this day the US has never lost a M1 Abram tank to enemy forces. All Abrams that were so badly hit where they could be repaired but due to the circumstance there was no way of getting that vehicle back to base safely the US forces themselves destroyed to deny enemy forces. So it is very realistic... And with the APC and Tanks being destroyed it would implement a whole convoy being forced to stop and repair and take care of wounded (in pr a logi truck would have to come up from the convoy and repair the vehicle, medics/corpsman would need to dismount their hums and would also need to come up and treat the wounded, that is assuming APCs and tanks dont run off and do their own thing which in so many cases they do but in that case the insurgents like I said could easily kill everyone after all team work is the key to this game and that encourages more team work for the coalition forces ya know)

and I think the current system can do what I suggested because I have seen RPGs get a shot off at APCs and disable them so they couldn't move, so I am sure the devs could easily do this...and if the system couldnt do the whole wound thing for the APCs maybe just disable them to where they beep with that annoying siren.

as far as the 3000 lb IED it was a story i heard from a army friend I did not read it typo my bad but thats y I did not sight.... but this has to be at leas 1500 lbs http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fadc431531 and these people state not sure on the clarity of their sources Abrams have run over 1000lbs of explosives and survived http://www.fuckfrance.com/topic/3455186 ... atton.html now IDK if my friend failed to mention the IED was buried to deep (which I know for a fact that happens a lot in Iraq heres a cool video http://www.vidmax.com/video/3557/Deep_b ... th_a_road/ but now that you say that and looking online something must of went wrong with that IED if it was 3000 lbs)

but still something should be done in game

[freeway]

have u ever think of ppl who laying mines on roads how many times they success ? and how manytimes have u played as a sabber ? give ppl on the otherside a chance to win would ya ? u get frustrated or r you blind ? most of the time u could see mines from miles away , we cant bury them can we ? come on think b4 u suggest anything for f** sake

[USMCMIDN]

have u ever think of ppl who laying mines on roads how many times they success ? and how manytimes have u played as a sabber ? give ppl on the otherside a chance to win would ya ? u get frustrated or r you blind ? most of the time u could see mines from miles away , we cant bury them can we ? come on think b4 u suggest anything for f** sake

well its a game based on reality and besides insurgents win 2/3 of the time anyway and chill out no need to swear and get angry my friend

ps many a time i have seen guys who dont no what they are doing take the tank or apcs and run over mines so I believe they are very successful

[Herbiie]

Mines need to be the same otherwise Insurgents wouldn't stand a chance

This is not a MilSim - it's a game, sacrificing Reality for Balance is acceptable.

Also mine's aren't very successful as half decent drivers just know not to drive through the city - or if they do to be bleeding careful about it.

Also the US have lost several hundred tanks to this day. Little thing called the Second World War and Panther tanks

And Freeway has a point - think about being an insurgent before you make a suggestion. The only thing that gives insurgents a chance against a good BLUFOR team is the fact that US vehicles can't get in close because of mines, and RPGs. The reason insurgents win all the itme is because we (as a community) are learning the best spots to mine, where the BLUFOR forces will probably land etc. etc.

Also how often do you see an M1A2 blown up by mines? On Kashan? Not Likely... Oh and has anyone told you this is a game? Not real life? It'll never be able to recreate real warfare - if you want that go get an application form for your local Regiment

[Rudd]

I fully support this in the case of tanks

and to an extent for APCs

Mines are about area denial not pwning stuff when you aint watching imo.

its also more fun

like a pack of hyenas figuring out how to kill a wounded wilderbeast

[USMCMIDN]

Mines need to be the same otherwise Insurgents wouldn't stand a chance

This is not a MilSim - it's a game, sacrificing Reality for Balance is acceptable.

Also mine's aren't very successful as half decent drivers just know not to drive through the city - or if they do to be bleeding careful about it.

Also the US have lost several hundred tanks to this day. Little thing called the Second World War and Panther tanks

And Freeway has a point - think about being an insurgent before you make a suggestion. The only thing that gives insurgents a chance against a good BLUFOR team is the fact that US vehicles can't get in close because of mines, and RPGs. The reason insurgents win all the itme is because we (as a community) are learning the best spots to mine, where the BLUFOR forces will probably land etc. etc.

Also how often do you see an M1A2 blown up by mines? On Kashan? Not Likely... Oh and has anyone told you this is a game? Not real life? It'll never be able to recreate real warfare - if you want that go get an application form for your local Regiment

you are right we have but I meant never lost an M1 Abram thanks for catching that that was my mistake and I have changed it in the past post but it was clear that I was talking about them...

and many a time I have been yelled at by other players telling me this is not a game but a sim and I think they do have a point for the most part and according to many game editorials and all the awards PR has won in the past it is a game based on a realistic combat environment so says wiki lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Reality and I joined the military at age 17 so im 2 yrs ahead of you on getting that application form lol!

also i play insurgents all the time, they are one of my preferred factions I just want a game based on reality to be as realistic as possible and i think its prety sweet that an average joe can make models and suggest future elements of the game...as for the mines yes they should be a way of denying the enemy passage or route and if the devs do change this it will continue to do so no sane driver is going to drive up to a cashe or through a city or even a heavily defended area to get disabled or wounded and then RPGd and killed ya know, they still will have the effect of denying the enemy as they do now and like I said b4 insurgents win 2/3 of the time anyway.

[Herbiie]

and many a time I have been yelled at by other players telling me this is not a game ... and I joined the military at age 17 so im 2 yrs ahead of you on getting that application form lol!

also i play insurgents all the time, they are one of my preferred factions I just want a game based on reality to be as realistic as possible and i think its prety sweet that an average joe can make models and suggest future elements of the game...as for the mines yes they should be a way of denying the enemy passage or route and if the devs do change this it will continue to do so no sane driver is going to drive up to a cashe or through a city or even a heavily defended area to get disabled or wounded and then RPGd and killed ya know, they still will have the effect of denying the enemy as they do now and like I said b4 insurgents win 2/3 of the time anyway.

Those players are wrong

And My Application has already gone through and I start basic in April

A Realistic Combat Enviroment =/= MilSim. It's realistic, but it's still a game. If mines become less Powerful then IEDs need to become more powerful, seeing as even an Arty IED can't take out an APC....

Also like I said - there's only 1 tank vs Insurgents and that's a Chally 2 on Basrah Though that has better armour than an M1A2 so yeah lol

[USMCMIDN]

Those players are wrong

And My Application has already gone through and I start basic in April

A Realistic Combat Enviroment =/= MilSim. It's realistic, but it's still a game. If mines become less Powerful then IEDs need to become more powerful, seeing as even an Arty IED can't take out an APC....

Also like I said - there's only 1 tank vs Insurgents and that's a Chally 2 on Basrah Though that has better armour than an M1A2 so yeah lol

The game is based on reality even in the heading of the games name Project REALITY so itshould be more realistic and who knows there could be more maps with tanks ya know ive been lookin at the new maps and who says the devs wont put a tank in 1 or 2 of those? ? ?

and lets stop with the non sense of what tank is more armored and better in my experience every modern 3rd gen NATO tank is pretty much equal and anyone who has trained with foreign nato militaries will tell you the same assuming they can get past pride in their own nation. So lets keep the discussion on topic shall we?

[Drunkenup]

This is a response and further extension of the "Lower Anti Tank Mine Damage".
As said in the last thread, the arguement over lowering Anti Tank mine damage wouldn't allow tanks to not be disabled. But rather I'd like to see the Anti Tank Mines on Insurgency lowered in damage to the extent where a tank can roll over one and be able to continue running without being heavily damaged. APCs and other IFVs though should only be damaged to the extent where they are disabled.

On my side of the debate I'd like to ask for the Sapper kit with the AT Mines (Insurgency) to only be available at the Squad level and for one per squad. This would reduce the Mine spam that I've seen in ridiculous numbers.

[arjan]

If the insurgent mines could be buried, but half the damage, i would like to see this.
I can imagine insurgents with an RPG's covering the mine, as soon something rolls over it, they get their RPG in position to finish him off

[USMCMIDN]

This is a response and further extension of the "Lower Anti Tank Mine Damage".
As said in the last thread, the arguement over lowering Anti Tank mine damage wouldn't allow tanks to not be disabled. But rather I'd like to see the Anti Tank Mines on Insurgency lowered in damage to the extent where a tank can roll over one and be able to continue running without being heavily damaged. APCs and other IFVs though should only be damaged to the extent where they are disabled.

On my side of the debate I'd like to ask for the Sapper kit with the AT Mines (Insurgency) to only be available at the Squad level and for one per squad. This would reduce the Mine spam that I've seen in ridiculous numbers.

I could live with this lol but you could of said this in my thread....

[freeway]

if u cant keep those tanks/apcs out of town u loose or other word u ll get raped . nothing could kill these tanks accept mines and bomb cars , but i dont see a bomb car kills a apc or a tank very often which is extremely rare . and at the end of the game those ppl in tank sq or apc sq always have 30 + kills so it is safe to say apc and tanks ARE raping us . if u want realistic u should add jets and attack choppers dropping jdams so u dont have to die , this is a game and dieing sometimes is frustrating . why we r playing as insurgents knowing that we ll die a lot ? because we know there is a chance that those idiots driving a tank will run over a mine we cant bury lol (wtf ?) so this raping will be over and we have a fair fight since RPGs cant reach them and bomb cars just fail . But now u saying we should lower mines damage ? it is like u telling us wait till the tank run over 2 mines so it could be killed . who would be that dump not to repair the damn tank b4 get back to the fight .