Sunset City idea (Improvement)

[Anxiety]

Ever since sunset city has had its revamp it has had alot of mixed emotions , some people love the idea of massive cap area and less directed fighting .

Some hate the idea that once one side caps it they just rape the other team ,

My Idea is keep the massive cap radius, but split it up into 4 Flags of the city and make those cap radius' overlap ( make them very large) , this way , the fighting is still undirected , but one team doesn't get rapped when they loose one flag.

Ideas??

[darkNight]

Don't get the point.

I like it how it is right now. I couldn't notice any 'raping'. It's a great fight inside that town. Way better than the last version of this map.

[mammikoura]

I think what the OP means is that right now when you cap the city flag the other team starts bleeding. And to be honest, as long as one controls the flag they are going to win because the other team is bleeding.

But I don't see anything wrong with this. The whole point of the map is to take control of the city so obviously the team in control should be winning.

[ReaperMAC]

There shouldn't be a bleed. Period. The flag radius and the cap time should be increased also.

[mammikoura]

There shouldn't be a bleed. Period.

once the bleed is removed neither side has any reason to attack. However this won't stop the blue mob from running straight at the enemy and getting annihilated in the city. So yeah, it might actually work.

But I fear that at some point players start to realize that attacking serves no purpose anymore (this actually is true in many maps) and the game will turn into a camping party. No ticket bleed = no reason to attack. No ticket bleed = k/d ratio is all that matters.
All you need to do is defend one flag and wait for the enemy to rush towards you, then just shoot them. Positive k/d ratio to almost every player is guaranteed and you will win the round.

[mammikoura]

There is also no reason to attack the enemy IRL if you are defending somewhere because it is safer to defend. So people really shouldn't be attacking when they hold the city.

yes but if you remove the ticket bleed then there is no point to leave the main base. Just set up good defences around the main base, use the rivers to your advantage and you will always win the round.

IRL it is the k/d ratio that matters, kill the enemy and DONT die in the process. Its actually so important that it is well worth pulling back to save peoples lives if fighting gets too intense. Dying is the one thing you really do not ever want to do in combat, or at any other time.

Yes obviously you don't want to die IRL. But IRL you want to complete your objective.. and even if you don't someone who has a higher rank will order you to complete that objective. (in this case, capture the city) If keeping the soldiers alive would be the only thing that people think about then there wouldn't even be wars, it's the objectives that the guys with the high rank are interested in.

Picture sunset city as a real life battlefield. Both armies have the objective of securing the city. So.. would they go to the city and try to secure it, or would they hang around drinking coffee in their base?

And finally, this is a game and it's ment to be fun. Usually servers have no problem with squads not attacking, but this is simply because about 95% of the players aren't that smart. (no offence) There are some maps where attacking is good, but on most maps it's a solid defence that wins.

[ReaperMAC]

once the bleed is removed neither side has any reason to attack.

Not true, if you are able to get on their main flag, because you've capture the city, you can end the round in your favor. Not to mention TG already removed the bleed from the map (which makes it more fun and offers bigger firefights in the city). Going by this, I agree to what they have done to make the map more appealing and exciting.

The reason I say remove the bleed is because at this point, the Chinese, 8/10 times, will most likely grab the flag and the entire map is over. It is extremely hard to get the flag back, and by the time you do it, it is too late. But if you remove said bleed, the area would be more contested. Why bother playing PR if you can just sit back... and do nothing?

[mammikoura]

Not true, if you are able to get on their main flag, because you've capture the city, you can end the round in your favor.

well that's true. But still you don't get anything from taking the city flag. You need their main base too.

Why bother playing PR if you can just sit back... and do nothing?

exactly. And this is the exact reason why I'm worried about these maps where it's extremely hard to accomplish ticket bleed.

IF players realize the advantages of defence the whole game will change. This might not happen in public servers since well.. it's the internet, can't expect people to be smart. For example OGT, why push across the river and lose tickets when you can sit comfortably in cover around the flag on your side of the river and pick of enemies one by one as they try to cap the flag?

I've done this with my squad a few times. Just take position around north bridge (as brits) and wait till the chinese walk right into your sights. Kill them all, repeat untill you have won the round. We have done this I think 3 or 4 times, and usually in the end of the round the squad has maybe 50 kills and about 15 deaths. That's automatically 35 tickets for the team.

This also happened on a much larger scale on OGT in the tournament. No one even tried to cross the river because it was suicide against an organized defence. So both sides sat there shooting each other over the river for a few hours. Very fun indeed.

Another example from a tournament. Qwai river. We (as usmc) attacked and got fishing village, we continued to attack and got estate. We still continued to attack but were unable to get local tempel since the PLA had an awesome defence in therer. Result, usmc lost. We had 2/3 of the flags and we still lost. Not because we were worse players, but because the PLA were smarter and chose to defend.

Ticket bleed is needed to encourage people to attack, this might not be a big deal on a random public server but once you have 2 organized teams people are going to defend because that's how you win.

[Warmagi]

You are talking about smarter players going defence when they are loosing and with no bleed they usually win.

Why the atackers arent wise. Why they wont stop to atack when they have most of the flags and defend. Enemy have just 1 or 2 flags so he dont have place to manouver as doeas your team, just stay there and wait till they come to get those flags back. Those are the shouts of frustrated people that are loosing though were winnig. (yes I experienced that as well).

And about Sunset... well for me its a Karkand in PR edition. Stupid rush for glory, nadespam and sniper fest. I like urban fights... I had fun on "new" sunset. Suprisingly enough most of the time as... US!!!!!! But usually US is loosing this map.

Why the big advantage of a chineese team? (If you dont know they can get to the city twice as fast as USMC and cap the flag).
Maybe they have advantage in the route of advance... oh wait.. chineese already have took all the high ground in the city, set rally points and Firebases while the USMC was still shaking in their trucks...
OH! OH! USMC got better equipment... ah.. wait.. they dont.. so... I dont get it... where is USMC strong side on this map... (dont tell me that its the boat). I know... they are mighty Americans. Furthermore, a special kind od Americans... They are MARINES!!!

Seriously, how this layout made it to PR? To bring some 'nilla neighbours?

[Warmagi]

@ Jonny

Sure thing. Im doing it when Im with my clan. Sometimes when other squads cooperate a bit as well we are winning this map as USMC. The key word... sometimes.

It works but...
First you and your squad/team (Im talking about USMC) need to be good, or even very good in shooting, tactical awarness, teamwork, cooperation and ofcourse luck (no matter if you are good or even better than that if that chineese squad on top of a building that you are sneaking up to will stop shooting at your friends from other squad and spots you which will cause a rain of grenades while another of your squads will get wiped out leaving an open flank and your rally will... go make love itself).

I know the ways of urban fighting or flanking or cutting suplies... but its just too many things that can go wrong for USMC while they fighting with all the disadvantages and with no advantage at all. Will you agree?

[Wolfe]

Sunset city is one of the few city-only maps that is desperately lacking in PR. The problem, however, is that with the current state of view distances and weapon deviation, the map plays much smaller than ever before. This is why the flag count was reduce to 1; it helps to spread out forces over the city instead of zerging from one place to another.

In the long run, new city maps are needed. Large cities that can't be sprinted through in 30 seconds, driven through in 5 seconds, and sniped across in 1.

[ReaperMAC]

well that's true. But still you don't get anything from taking the city flag. You need their main base too.

What you get from taking the city flag is an opportunity to take their main base . Without the city flag, you risk the chance that you may lose your mainbase and lose the round. My point is, if you take away the city flag bleed, there will be more firefights in the city. Right now, the team who takes it (usually Chinese) will end up winning the round without much of a firefight.

Ticket bleed is needed to encourage people to attack, this might not be a big deal on a random public server but once you have 2 organized teams people are going to defend because that's how you win.

1) We are mainly speaking from a pubber's point of view because the majority of people who play are NOT in the tourney.
2) Right now, the city flag is almost impossible to take back. Unless you have your entire team on said flag, it would be extremely difficult to neutralize the flag. And once you do, it may be too late for you to win anyways. Not too much fun.

[77SiCaRiO77]

my idea :

keep bleending , add an armor to the team that lose the flag , so they have a chanse to recapture the city with the extra asset , while the defenders have time to dig holes and waait for the counterattak.


also add MORE TRANSPORTs FFS

[General_J0k3r]

also add MORE TRANSPORTs FFS

qft. the usmc are a bit too low on transport. make it so, that one can at least transport the whole team at a time (add hmmw's or something). it may work for tournaments and clanmatches, it doesn't work properly on pubs though.

[Redamare]

AKA ... bring sunset city back to the Stock first generation map idea AHHA ... i say refit it with Villages up in the mountians and shit spread the battle its an outdated map and needs revision

[Rissien]

Talk about a necro...