Cobra removal in muttrah

[Sprats]

OK it might have been suggested many times before, but wouldnt it be better to remove cobra in muttrah? Why? Because it just gets killed most of the time, doing 0 ticket damage to MEC, loosing tickets for US.More players playing as infantry then, no need for spotters/lasers and pilots. Didint you notice how much longer the game lasts when maps layout is v16. In the full match, 3 to 4 cobras are lost, costing US how much, 60 or more tickets? So please consider doing something about it, or maybe it could just spawn once...

[W4lt3r89]

1 cobra + 2 pilots = 12 tickets lost.
Sure, in most cases the cobra is lost and one thing is the HAT's that are used against it with better efficiency then the AA's, because cobra doesn't have single idea on the missile unless either of the operators see the missile approaching. Most cases being the Gunner.

The cobra is something that the whole team should provide assistance to. Rarely you have 1-2 spotters outside the cobra squad. Very rarely every single SL gives lasers (Latter happened to me once, scoring over 12 busted BTRs, 4 FBs and several infantry squadrons).

Sure, it's useless when no one on the team provides it some extra eyes but if they do, god help MEC's.
Also with lasers it doesn't have to hover to find those targets, it just rushes the lasers with all munitions it have lighted up.

Removing it would just end up MEC winning even more. They just have to HAT / LAT the LAV's (soon to be AAVP7's) and get their hands on US HAT kits.

[MyOdessa]

Meh, its fun killing Cobra. lol. More seriously, the problem with Cobra on Muttrah is the lack of good pilots. Good pilot will keep on moving, returning to the mountains @ A1, waiting for the target. He will also have spotter on the ground, often SL of the Cobra squad. In reality most pilots will just hang in the air, in one spot waiting for the BTR or Hat to nail it. My view of it is from the ground, I killed quite a few Cobras in BTR and a few with LAT. The solution is better pilot, not a removal of Cobra from the map.

[Sprats]

Those 12 btrs you busted must be very stupid to go in the open while cobra is up. Its not about HATing cobra. Its about teamwork with it, well if 2 spotters in 2 different places cant put any laze for cobra its their problem. Like yesterday i saw cobra looking at my btr then we hided in the hangar(docks) i took AA from apc and bam, cobra is down while it was at 678 altitude. The game ended up at score of 59-0. IF those few cobras wouldnt have been lost, US could have been the winner. Maybe something else can change the cobra? Something more useful, because LAVs cant do any jobs these days, hit by lat, btr comes and finishes it off. Something else...

[Sprats]

Meh, its fun killing Cobra. lol. More seriously, the problem with Cobra on Muttrah is the lack of good pilots. Good pilot will keep on moving, returning to the mountains @ A1, waiting for the target. He will also have spotter on the ground, often SL of the Cobra squad. In reality most pilots will just hang in the air, in one spot waiting for the BTR or Hat to nail it. My view of it is from the ground, I killed quite a few Cobras in BTR and a few with LAT. The solution is better pilot, not a removal of Cobra from the map.

Yes but not everytime you get good pilots. People will still take it if there are no good pilots then fail, then blame the team..

[nk87]

Its too easy for MEC to win muttrah already, they dont need to remove the cobra, they need to give it some love

[McCree]

The main problem with CAS usually is that you don't have large enough squad to do it. You can't just rely on the team (exceptions apply!). Normally there's just two wanna-be-mavericks in a squad who just want to fly the pretty thing and remake all the cool videos shown in youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og_qqzuj6xY

Equip your squad with two pilots, sniper and one PROPER squadleader to laze targets and place markers. This makes everything so much easier! Plus the SL can put down a rally point for the case that you do get shot down. Just spawn in and start playing as infantry until cobra spawns back.

I've had many successful rounds with this setup. Plus it's hell of a fun when done properly.

edit: tried to use the youtube-embedded mode but it didn't work

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Its all about teamwork on Muttrah.

1. Inf should prioritize FOBs with AA assuming they want to keep the helis up. (Recce squad SL/sniper behind enemy lines that do not engage targets themselves.

2. Cobra pilot should standoff on carrier or behind hills until he has a target accurately given to him, so minimum TOT.

3. Any AA suspicions should be reported to CO/text/or Mumble SL.

4. SL's use lazing with correct procedure giving grid and target type first (SM's to be patient while SL is tied up with this).

5. Any hydra runs should be in AA cleared areas, fast and low, only lazes used in enemy territory.

6. If the cobra gets taken out by HATS the pilot should stick to armour.

Last night a MEC FOB was deployed on docks, even the bloody Cobra didn't bother taking it out when he knew its there.
If I SL as US and the two heli's are up I just call them in on inf infront of me all the time to advance, whilst watching out for AA.

[Alex6714]

1) Lack of teamwork to make it work.

2) Cobra desperately needs some love.

3) Incredible AA spam on muttrah, by multiple missile launchers, manpads, APCs, HATs and even ARs. That and you can build your camp base on docks, even if US are at south of the city.

[badmojo420]

Tip for CAS squads....Don't lock your squad with only 2 people. Get a SL who can mark targets, sniper to laze targets, or even just some regular inf to tag along with other INF squads. I enjoy doing these jobs, but rarely do I want to spam team chat for an invite, only to be told they already have 2 pilots.

I'm sure people will say those other 4 guys are better off in an infantry squad. But, at 12 tickets per helicopter downed, I disagree. Not to mention, with a sniper & spotter in your CAS squad, you've just eliminated the need for a dedicated sniper squad.

My ideal CAS squad would be...

1. SL for spotting & marking
2. Pilot
3. Gunner
4. Sniper
5. Rifleman specialist (spotter)
6. Medic (To tag along with an INF or APC squad)

[Herbiie]

Those 12 btrs you busted must be very stupid to go in the open while cobra is up. Its not about HATing cobra. Its about teamwork with it, well if 2 spotters in 2 different places cant put any laze for cobra its their problem. Like yesterday i saw cobra looking at my btr then we hided in the hangar(docks) i took AA from apc and bam, cobra is down while it was at 678 altitude. The game ended up at score of 59-0. IF those few cobras wouldnt have been lost, US could have been the winner. Maybe something else can change the cobra? Something more useful, because LAVs cant do any jobs these days, hit by lat, btr comes and finishes it off. Something else...

1) Sometimes they don't have a choice

2) The more SLs lazing you have the more effective the Cobra is

3) If you're in a BTR hiding at Docks - with the Cobra up or down the MEC has won that round

4) Have you seen those times when the Cobra team is awesome, with a good team and a commander co-ordinating air support? When that happens the Cobra is an awesome piece of kit and can dominate the battlefield.

[Silly_Savage]

Unfortunately, Muttrah is starting to become the Karkand of PR. Not so much the grenade spam and dolphin-divers, but more so the morons and smacktards that get kicked off of every other server and congregate towards the 24/7 Muttrah servers.

Muttrah attracts the scum of PR, and as of lately, I try to avoid that map like the plague. Of course, if there were more servers with reliable administration, this problem wouldn't exist.

To be fair, Muttrah is a joy to play when you have a teamwork-oriented team and watchful admins.

[Hunt3r]

1) Sometimes they don't have a choice

2) The more SLs lazing you have the more effective the Cobra is

3) If you're in a BTR hiding at Docks - with the Cobra up or down the MEC has won that round

4) Have you seen those times when the Cobra team is awesome, with a good team and a commander co-ordinating air support? When that happens the Cobra is an awesome piece of kit and can dominate the battlefield.

The problem is that you have such a small target to hit in terms of conditions met in order to be effective, that it simply becomes improbable that you will have good CAS from a helicopter.

With LG Hellfires, your only option is to enter hover faster, or go straight at the target. With LT Hellfires your team inevitably will lase 29 seconds before you fire, the cannon is a peashooter, Hydras doubly so.

All of these factors combine to make the Cobra extremely hard to operate effectively. Sometimes it's no longer the person, it's the game.

Communism didn't work because of the government, not the people.

[badmojo420]

.....With LT Hellfires your team inevitably will lase 29 seconds before you fire............Sometimes it's no longer the person, it's the game.

Little bit of a contradiction there.

The Cobra is only as good as the person lasing. And there should be no excuses for bad lasing, since that is just about the ONLY thing the training servers do effectively. So if your Cobra is failing, it IS the people, not the system.

[Paladin Necroman]

I agree with everyone else. It all comes down to team work and some skill. Always. And you can alaways do some damage without so much skill, having at least 1 or 2 skilled members makes it enough (they lead the unexperienced) when you have good team work.

[Hunt3r]

Little bit of a contradiction there.

The Cobra is only as good as the person lasing. And there should be no excuses for bad lasing, since that is just about the ONLY thing the training servers do effectively. So if your Cobra is failing, it IS the people, not the system.

The question is why do we have to have this system.

In Combined Arms, the attack helicopters clearly are a huge improvement over PR. The laser guided system in PR is flawed and requires you to become an easy target in order to get hits, the laser targeted system does not work unless you have someone on the ground lasing. Both of which are undesirable since other squad leaders will almost never lase, and spotters are not as effective.

[badmojo420]

The question is why do we have to have this system.

In Combined Arms, the attack helicopters clearly are a huge improvement over PR. The laser guided system in PR is flawed and requires you to become an easy target in order to get hits, the laser targeted system does not work unless you have someone on the ground lasing. Both of which are undesirable since other squad leaders will almost never lase, and spotters are not as effective.

We have the system because in reality, CAS is called in by troops on the ground & directed to the target that needs destroying. They're essentially a weapon for the infantry to make use of. It's true, the helicopters have the ability to roam around and find their own targets. But that is putting a high value vehicle in great risk. It happens, but not often. And never when there is such a large presence of AA in the area.

So, in PR we have a system that is extremely effective when used in a realistic manner (inf calling in support to a grid, and marking the target) while still being somewhat useful when going in alone. But, not so effective that doing it the proper way would become a hassle compared to just flying around killing stuff by yourself.

Another thing to consider is if we increased their effectiveness in regards to target acquisition, we would also have to increase the effectiveness of the anti-air systems, and if we did that, aircraft would be getting hit before they could get off the ground, from across the map.

Is it realistic? No. But, does it encourage realistic usage of an asset? I think so.

[Hunt3r]

We have the system because in reality, CAS is called in by troops on the ground & directed to the target that needs destroying. They're essentially a weapon for the infantry to make use of. It's true, the helicopters have the ability to roam around and find their own targets. But that is putting a high value vehicle in great risk. It happens, but not often. And never when there is such a large presence of AA in the area.

So, in PR we have a system that is extremely effective when used in a realistic manner (inf calling in support to a grid, and marking the target) while still being somewhat useful when going in alone. But, not so effective that doing it the proper way would become a hassle compared to just flying around killing stuff by yourself.

Another thing to consider is if we increased their effectiveness in regards to target acquisition, we would also have to increase the effectiveness of the anti-air systems, and if we did that, aircraft would be getting hit before they could get off the ground, from across the map.

Is it realistic? No. But, does it encourage realistic usage of an asset? I think so.

Yes, of course in reality CAS is called by troops, but in reality lases are the BF2 equivalent of markers. They are not requires to fire accurately. In CA, taking off in the presence of heavy AA is as risky as it is in reality, if not more so. Your cannon and rockets are more effective as anti-infantry and light vehicle destruction, but they will detonate within your view distance. Hellfires are more powerful, and more accurate. You do in fact perform CAS beautifully, but you're still going to get killed by AA.

The Apache and Mi-28 both are designed as tank hunters, and they should certainly accomplish that mission with coordination with a scout helicopter or another attack helicopter. CAS should most definitely be accomplished with coordination of infantry, but as it is in PR, the tank hunter role requires people on the ground lasing for you, which is something that is NOT realistic.

I'm all for needing CAS to have marking and ground coordination, but it should not mean that taking out tanks requires equal amounts of ground coordination. Tanks require far less coordination to kill an attack helicopter, seeing as how you can stop quickly, compared to an attack helicopter.

[Welshboy]

It all depends on who's flying it and if the team is competant to actually laze then its worth using

[badmojo420]

Yes, of course in reality CAS is called by troops, but in reality lases are the BF2 equivalent of markers. They are not requires to fire accurately. In CA, taking off in the presence of heavy AA is as risky as it is in reality, if not more so. Your cannon and rockets are more effective as anti-infantry and light vehicle destruction, but they will detonate within your view distance. Hellfires are more powerful, and more accurate. You do in fact perform CAS beautifully, but you're still going to get killed by AA.

The Apache and Mi-28 both are designed as tank hunters, and they should certainly accomplish that mission with coordination with a scout helicopter or another attack helicopter. CAS should most definitely be accomplished with coordination of infantry, but as it is in PR, the tank hunter role requires people on the ground lasing for you, which is something that is NOT realistic.

I'm all for needing CAS to have marking and ground coordination, but it should not mean that taking out tanks requires equal amounts of ground coordination. Tanks require far less coordination to kill an attack helicopter, seeing as how you can stop quickly, compared to an attack helicopter.

So you're basically asking for every person & vehicle to have a laser target on it at all times? Since that is how it would be most realistic? I believe a system like that would hurt gameplay. And would also require reworking of just about every other weapon system in the game, minus the rifles.

Tank hunting in PR does not require a laser target. It requires a good pilot and gunner. While staying high up to avoid their main cannon, you approach them slowly while your gunner launches a guided hellfire. Have you ever been in a tank while an attack helo flys over you? You feel helpless. It's only when the pilot thinks he can dive bomb them with hydras, that it all goes to hell. Or if the tank has anti-air assisting them. Otherwise you should be untouchable. Of course this all relies on having a gunner who can fire LG hellfires while moving.