Cobra removal in muttrah

[Startrekern]

I'd like to see the Cobra on Jabal and two, respawnable Hydra Hueys on Muttrah.

[snooggums]

Tank hunting in PR does not require a laser target. It requires a good pilot and gunner. While staying high up to avoid their main cannon, you approach them slowly while your gunner launches a guided hellfire.

This doesn't work on Muttrah (thread topic) because:

Lots of AA will still see and hit you.
The MEC APCs can shoot you down because their cannon elevation and no deviation when firing. This is my preferred method of killing Attack choppers on Muttrah because there is no signal that they are going to be hit.
HATs can kill you easily.

Flying high only works outside of view range with laser targeting, but a blind fired AA may still lock on and hit you.

[badmojo420]

I don't use the HAT killing attack helo technique, so I can't comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target, but as long as you stay high enough and keep moving the APC shouldn't be able to just blow you out of the sky. Of course AA will always kill you, that's a given.

[Alex6714]

Tank hunting in PR does not require a laser target. It requires a good pilot and gunner. While staying high up to avoid their main cannon, you approach them slowly while your gunner launches a guided hellfire. Have you ever been in a tank while an attack helo flys over you? You feel helpless. It's only when the pilot thinks he can dive bomb them with hydras, that it all goes to hell. Or if the tank has anti-air assisting them. Otherwise you should be untouchable. Of course this all relies on having a gunner who can fire LG hellfires while moving.

You remind me of kashan 32. We had a couple of tanks and where rolling about. Never had any fear when the Apaches came, havoks where almost non existant (and there were decent guys flying them). We were all loling about it being the "non air support version".

But in all seriousness, I can´t remember fearing a heli in a tank, in fact, I can´t remember the last time one killed me in a tank. Most of the time you either never see the enemy helicopter because its dead, or you or a mate shoots it with your main gun.

[CanuckCommander]

You remind me of kashan 32. We had a couple of tanks and where rolling about. Never had any fear when the Apaches came, havoks where almost non existant (and there were decent guys flying them). We were all loling about it being the "non air support version".

But in all seriousness, I can´t remember fearing a heli in a tank, in fact, I can´t remember the last time one killed me in a tank. Most of the time you either never see the enemy helicopter because its dead, or you or a mate shoots it with your main gun.

Lol yea on either 32 or 64, air support is so irrelevant that the AA vehicles don't even get used.

[Sniperdog]

So you're basically asking for every vehicle to have a laser target on it at all times?

Precisely.

If you asked a real attack helocopter gunner if he needs a soldier on the ground to lase an active vehicle so he can acquire a lock on it he would probably laugh at you...

[badmojo420]

Precisely.

If you asked a real attack helocopter gunner if he needs a soldier on the ground to lase an active vehicle so he can acquire a lock on it he would probably laugh at you...

I honestly think it would be bad for gameplay in the current state PR is in. And if you start changing other things to compensate, everything will be affected. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm very skeptical that the same level of balance could be achieved. Sure, the attack helos are nerfed now, but they're still a very effective tool if used according to the constraints of the game. They don't require the ability to locate targets on their own, in a realistic manner. In a 4km x 4km area, that would be massive overkill IMO.

[Psyrus]

Precisely.

If you asked a real attack helocopter gunner if he needs a soldier on the ground to lase an active vehicle so he can acquire a lock on it he would probably laugh at you...

Sounds like you would enjoy Combat Arms

[Sniperdog]

Sounds like you would enjoy Combined Arms

Probably not; I hear the developers there are somewhat out of wack...

[CAS_117]

If I saw one of them on the street, I'd beat the shit out of those dickheads.

[Hunt3r]

I honestly think it would be bad for gameplay in the current state PR is in. And if you start changing other things to compensate, everything will be affected. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm very skeptical that the same level of balance could be achieved. Sure, the attack helos are nerfed now, but they're still a very effective tool if used according to the constraints of the game. They don't require the ability to locate targets on their own, in a realistic manner. In a 4km x 4km area, that would be massive overkill IMO.

When I read this I just don't know where to start.

Simply put, you have to put the attack helicopters in danger just to be able to be as effective as you think they are. This is a huge danger, and you can't just stay far off and live that way.

If you think attack helicopters are overkill, please download Combined Arms when the next version is released, and join the play test. This way you can have a fully informed opinion.

Attack helicopters certainly don't need to find their targets with no issue at all, but the CA gunnery system doesn't do that and you really need good coordination and relaying of information to not fly into AA protected territory.

[badmojo420]

When I read this I just don't know where to start.

Simply put, you have to put the attack helicopters in danger just to be able to be as effective as you think they are. This is a huge danger, and you can't just stay far off and live that way.

Leaving the main base, puts a helicopter in danger. I fail to see your point with this comment.

If you think attack helicopters are overkill, please download Combined Arms when the next version is released, and join the play test. This way you can have a fully informed opinion.

Attack helicopters certainly don't need to find their targets with no issue at all, but the CA gunnery system doesn't do that and you really need good coordination and relaying of information to not fly into AA protected territory.

I'm glad you love Combined Arms so much. But, perhaps rather than me having to play it to get informed. You could briefly explain the differences from PR. Since, you ARE in a PR suggestion forum. People want a little more information than just "Do it like CA does".

But, from what I've seen in videos and messing around in local with CA, I'm skeptical that the same level of balance (across the board) we currently see in PR could be achieved. I personally play PR for the great teamwork, realistic bullet damage, and the attention to overall game play. I can't help but feel like giving an attack helicopter it's true to life power, would tip the scales of balance the devs have worked so hard to achieve.

Play tests done by the CA devs and fans can hardly be considered an accurate representation of what the public will do with the mod. So don't just respond by telling me how great those tests went. Or is there a populated public server running CA now?

---

On a related note, it would be nice if the gunner had the ability to straight fire a hellfire. A lot of times you will see a stationary target, fire a LG at it, only to have the pilot move at just the wrong time so your missile lands just beside the target.

[Alex6714]

I'm glad you love Combined Arms so much. But, perhaps rather than me having to play it to get informed. You could briefly explain the differences from PR. Since, you ARE in a PR suggestion forum. People want a little more information than just "Do it like CA does".

Il just say that from test things have worked out even better, but we can´t tell you the differences and such because the mindset is so closed anything that involves the work laser and improvement automatically mean overpowered and unbalanced. However it is much more than just that, there are many factors. Also, the current PR system is not really balanced I am afraid to say. Certainly not in an optimal way.

I guess its just something you have to try.

[badmojo420]

So... you can't list the other changes, because of how I feel about the hellfire lock on system? And you're calling my mindset closed?

I don't even care anymore. I stated my opinions on the subject, I'm done here.

[Sniperdog]

So... you can't list the other changes, because of how I feel about the hellfire lock on system? And you're calling my mindset closed?

I don't even care anymore. I stated my opinions on the subject, I'm done here.

Well I guess the only changes you would probably be concerned with are these:

1. Attack Helicopters can effectively eliminate armor alone although doing so without proper intelligence is suicide

because...

2. With radar AA can kill Helicopters from twice as far away as they normally can in PR if you can picture that...

and...

3. AA missiles are now much more effective at what they do

Helos: 1
AA: 2
Manchester: 0

I hate to say it but this really is one of those things that you have to try with other people before you can pass judgement on it. You can ask anyone here I myself play PR quite frequently and enjoy it and understand what you mean when you say you enjoy the balance PR offers. We have not neglected that balance in Combined Arms.

I dont think CA implementing content from CA would destroy any of the balance that exists in PR but rather restore/fix it so everything is equally balanced and acceptably realistic.

One might be quick to say that a jet or helicopter is overpowered but they probably haven't killed an apache with an AAV from 1.5 kilometers away using radar (which is a truly AWESOME force to be reckoned with) or perhaps they might say the Armored vehicles are too potent a weapon but I want to see what they say after they fire a Javelin or call in CAS. Its all meant to balance in the end...

Wikipedia:

Combined arms is an approach to warfare which seeks to integrate different arms of a military to achieve mutually complementary effects.
Though the lower-echelon units of a combined arms team may be of homogeneous types, a balanced mixture of such units are combined into an effective higher-echelon unit.

For example an armored division — the modern paragon of combined arms doctrine — consists of a mixture of infantry, tank, artillery, reconnaissance, and perhaps even helicopter units, all coordinated and directed by a unified command structure.

[Gaz]

because the mindset is so closedAlso, the current PR system is not really balanced I am afraid to say. Certainly not in an optimal way.

I guess its just something you have to try.

Alex, if you wish to peddle your mod of PR and dig at PR at every opportunity, take it to your own forums please.

Thread locked because somehow PR Suggestions has suddenly become non-PR.