Bombs work as decoys

[Elektro]

So we have all tried to have a sam on our ***, and i think we can all agree that its no fun

What we usually do, is pop flares in hope of the missile getting attracted to them instead of the aircraft.

A flare is an aerial infrared countermeasure to counter an infrared homing ("heat seeking") surface-to-air missile or air-to-air missile. Flares are commonly composed of a pyrotechnic composition based on magnesium or another hot-burning metal, with burning temperature equal to or hotter than engine exhaust. The aim is to make the infrared-guided missile seek out the heat signature from the flare rather than the aircraft's engines.

Although a flare has a good heat source, most of the ammunition on a aircraft will generate more heat on inpact than a flare does.

So the idea with the suggestion is that, a dropped bomb, or missile can be used to diverte a SAM missile a long with SRMs & MRMs.

[killonsight95]

what exactly would the use of this be? you shouldn't be flying low enough so the bomb blast could accutaly distract the missile? makes no sence

[dtacs]

Did you get this idea from the missile outrunning part in Behind Enemy Lines?

Not sure if its codeable but to fighter pilots really drop external fuel tanks and their ordnance to escape a sidewinder or whatever? I don't believe it until I see proof.

Plus like KOS said its not really that practical, the missiles in PR fly faster than the aircraft, aside from the fact that the time you'd need to line up a bomb on the ground rather than press X...its just all a bit useless.

[killonsight95]

Did you get this idea from the missile outrunning part in Behind Enemy Lines?

Not sure if its codeable but to fighter pilots really drop external fuel tanks and their ordnance to escape a sidewinder or whatever? I don't believe it until I see proof.

i was thinking of that movie when he said that suggestion actualy but couldn't remember the name so didn't bother putting it in

[Elektro]

what exactly would the use of this be? you shouldn't be flying low enough so the bomb blast could accutaly distract the missile? makes no sence

Have you never done a CAS mission before? You usually get to fly pretty low, and if a missile is being shot at you the bomb you just delivered would work as a decoy. Even when being chased by the enemy fighter, if you have a friendly AAV down stairs you will try to lure the enemy into his fire range, and at that altitude you will have the possibility of dropping a missile incase your flares are out last resort

Did you get this idea from the missile outrunning part in Behind Enemy Lines?

Yes it was in TV yesterday

[Cp]

no it wouldn't.

Flare = close to same temperature of engine exhaust, burning for a couple of seconds.

Explosion from a bomb = quick flash of extreme heat.

Modern missiles can easily tell them apart.


Also, Flares confuse missiles by making it look like the target is splitting into more targets, a bomb exploding on the ground would be ignored as its too far away from the target.

Yes it was in TV yesterday

Hollywood movies =/= realism.

[Conman51]

also these situations almost never happen in PR, the missiles dont follow you long enough, and they are usually too close to you. usually by the time you can release your bomb it usually has hit you, or it has exploded already

[Elektro]

Modern missiles can easily tell them apart.

An Aim-9x might but i wouldnt know about the mig-29 or the Su-25s PR loadout

[Bringerof_D]

bombs and missiles wont work, the heat source must remain active constantly for a certain amount of time, other wise the sensors might not even notice it. bombs and missiles are explosive so any heat would only last a second.

the external fuel tank in Behind Enemy Lines would've only worked because the fuel would burn for a while allowing the missile to maintain a lock, and they were flying unrealistically low enough for the heat source to be close enough to the craft for the missile to get confused. the heat source must initiate near enough to the aircraft so the missile can actually pick it up. the tracking equipment in an IR guided missile only sees maybe 40 degrees to each side more or less depending on model, this is why once you dodge the missile it doesn't come right back at you. only radar guided missiles can do that but not that common either. another distance issue, it wont work because the tracking system will only track something that is believed to be the original lock, anything else is ignored

IRL flares do not guarantee an escape from IR tracking missiles, it gives you a 50/50 chance of which the missile will decide to follow, maybe a little more, this is why aircraft launch a mass of flares at once and not just one or 2, as i said the missile tries to stay with the original lock signal so flares are ignited immediately thus making the original lock signal split into two thus making the missile guess which one is the right one.

An Aim-9x might but i wouldnt know about the mig-29 or the Su-25s PR loadout

yes they can as i've explained above.

[Dev1200]

A tad off topic, but is it just me or do RPG, LAT, and AA missiles travel extremely fast? =S


Back on topic, I'm not sure what the chances are that:

1. The AA missile is behind you and the bomb you've dropped upon firing the AA.
2. Or, the AA missile will actually notice the bomb exploding.

[killonsight95]

A tad off topic, but is it just me or do RPG, LAT, and AA missiles travel extremely fast? =S

yes they do, check out the combined arms mod for a better idea of what they should be like from aircraft not sure about shoulder lauched wepons though never seen them used
however i belive if you watch a good number of videos on youtube at least then you'll get a good idea of how fast missiles travel IRL

[Elektro]

bombs and missiles wont work, the heat source must remain active constantly for a certain amount of time, other wise the sensors might not even notice it.

It all depends on time and space. I agree with you, that if i am flying at, 400 altitude with an AA lock and i drop a bomb, it will not effect the missiles original target by an inch. But if i have dived towards the bunkers, dropped my bomb, and the AAV fires a SAM rocket, It will be so close between me and the explotion that the chance of a decoy would be realistic.

[Dunehunter]

Why would it be realistic? Do you have any sources whatsoever stating that a bomb explosion can draw an AA-missile off-target?

[Elektro]

Why would it be realistic? Do you have any sources whatsoever stating that a bomb explosion can draw an AA-missile off-target?

I belive there was a canadian fighter that got an Air to Air lock on a iraqi boat. Think it was on fire or something? Not sure let me see if i can dig it up

[boilerrat]

Where are your sources?

[Dunehunter]

I belive there was a canadian fighter that got an Air to Air lock on a iraqi boat. Think it was on fire or something? Not sure let me see if i can dig it up

Ah. Because getting a lock on a boat that's on fire is totally the same thing as having a missile that is already locked on to something go after an explosion.

[Elektro]

Ah. Because getting a lock on a boat that's on fire is totally the same thing as having a missile that is already locked on to something go after an explosion.

its all i have

[DankE_SPB]

I belive there was a canadian fighter that got an Air to Air lock on a iraqi boat. Think it was on fire or something? Not sure let me see if i can dig it up

fire on boat= continuous high temperature spot on uniform low-temperature background
bomb explosion= high temperature flash

in addition to it newer missiles have separate channels in addition to IR to distinguish targets(ultraviolet on stinger and python-4 or 5 iirc for example)
and/or arrays of IR sensors, so missile see an image of its target(IIR), not hot-spot and thus has greater target selecting capabilities(AIM-9X)

anyway, even without modern fancy additions, i doubt bombs can spoil lock of approaching missile

[Elektro]

fire on boat= continuous high temperature spot on uniform low-temperature background
bomb explosion= high temperature flash

in addition to it newer missiles have separate channels in addition to IR to distinguish targets(ultraviolet on stinger and python-4 or 5 iirc for example)
and/or arrays of IR sensors, so missile see an image of its target(IIR), not hot-spot and thus has greater target selecting capabilities(AIM-9X)

anyway, even without modern fancy additions, i doubt bombs can spoil lock of approaching missile

How about we lock this thread, and just pretend it was never made ...

[motherdear]

closing due to request of creator and insufficient proof