Helis FLipping Before Warmed up.

[Hunt3r]

Well, if it's realistic, why not just remove the helicopter-flipping characteristic altogether? I don't think that the cyclic magically moves if you raise the collective up to maximum as the turbines spin up to speed.

It is a possibility that the helicopter will spin about if the tailrotor doesn't have enough speed when the rotors spool up. In reality, that would probably flip it, but in reality low rpm means that it's not going to move at all.

I think we need an MA to clear this up..

[Bringerof_D]

agree with rudd, makes more sense just to maybe add an icon to all helicopter pilots' HUD that changes color when the engine is ready

[mangeface]

I agree, a lot less harsh, and I don't even know if it's possible to code killing someone if they press W while waiting to take off.

I agree. Plus, what if they're just typing a message and hit the 'w' key? Then you'd have to code the game for that. Sounds like too much work when you could just kick a person off server. I usually stay away from helos for now until I get my skill back in the training area.

[Hunt3r]

Anyhow, although helos work well when you're not getting shot at, it's quite dangerous to be in one once you get into the inevitable flak and SAMs.

Getting in helicopters mid-game in maps like Muttrah and 'Cuda is suicide, pretty much. The Chinese have most likely have expanded their SHORAD net to cover the entire island and then some, and SEAD is almost impossible, as you can't really dodge SAMs and MG fire.

I do, however, enjoy being the one shooting those missiles.

Basically, I see no reason to change this, beyond making the Huey's sound more clear that it is still spinning up. If it were possible to implement a spinning turbine RPM gauge, something that, when you got in, would just slowly spool up to max after 30 seconds.

[Xavo|xXx]

And err.. no a helicopter won't completely rip apart under normal circumstances

Yeah, your right. I was tired and I was thinking of the stress testing they put them through. Where they tie the chopper down and keep applying power. The end result is quite impressive.

EDIT- Just watched the video again and the word I was looking for was ground resonance. Which doesn't really have anything to do with what we are talking about here.

[Herbiie]

I agree. Plus, what if they're just typing a message and hit the 'w' key? Then you'd have to code the game for that. Sounds like too much work when you could just kick a person off server. I usually stay away from helos for now until I get my skill back in the training area.

Just tapping the W key in my Suggestion isn't enough to kill you...

If you read it it says that instead of flipping you get killed - so you'll have to hold down the W key for a certain amount of time, not just tap it.

Also waiting for a Helicopter to be destroyed and maybe more (Helis destroyed or squads killed) before something is done is just stupid - why not do something about it before hand?


@ Hunt3r so you think it's fine that one team loses because of a noob?

A Heli flipping and taking me out (When I'm either in the Heli next to it or in the back) has happened to me about 5 times in the past few weeks, almost straight away the Pilot has left (Not kicked, Auto Kicked, Or Banned).... No one is happy and it helps no one.

Also the easiest way to tell is on some Helis the stamina bar goes up, when it disappears you can go.

[Kim Jong ill]

What happens if you're using a throttle? I happen to keep my engines just above idle to stop the chopper from drifting on the deck, it also helps to avoid the infamous merging with the USS Essex. Will this mean that I'm going to get killed even though on the same joystick I have a timer that notifies me of exactly when it's safe to take off?

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Well with the chinook film I think we have the animation for Chinook trying to take off too early.
For take off readiness would be sublime to have a light or better still one operational gauge in the cockpit!

[Herbiie]

What happens if you're using a throttle? I happen to keep my engines just above idle to stop the chopper from drifting on the deck, it also helps to avoid the infamous merging with the USS Essex. Will this mean that I'm going to get killed even though on the same joystick I have a timer that notifies me of exactly when it's safe to take off?

Ffs....

You flip if you hold the throttle down while the rotors are spooling up? That kills you! And everyone around you! THIS JUST KILLS YOU. IT doesn't mean that if you touch the throttle at any point you die - where does it say that? Where the hell is everyone getting this idea from?

This isn't more Harsh or ANYTHING else than the current system - the only difference is that Instead of ruining a game for a whole team one person dies with a long spawn time. How the hell is that harsh? You want to fly? PRACTISE, TRAIN, READ THE MANUAL. Only pilots who haven't done this flip, normal pilots will not be affected by this... Please try to actually read.

[Snazz]

The solution is not to punish the pilot further, half the helicopters should be re-coded.

Helicopters that roll/flip when throttle is applied too early:
- Huey
- Littlebird
- Mi-17 'Skycow'
- Merlin
- WZ-11
- Zhi-10

Helicopters that take off fine despite applying early throttle:
- Blackhawk
- Lynx
- Havok
- EC-635
- Cobra
- Apache
- Zhi-8

They should all stay upright until fully warmed up, pilots and their passengers should not be severely punished just because throttle was applied early.

[alberto_di_gio]

I agree that noob players mostly ruining all the game but you can't create a punishment system like that.

First of all you can never know if it happened by accident or because of noobness. The day before I joined the squad of a huey pilot in Jabal. He was a very good pilot. Made lots of drops an transports despite the hot zones all around map. But in one of the lift offs he just flipped and explode. So shit happens!

Second..if we are talking about noob pilots who ruin the game what about noob squads and players? You may restart the map if one noob ruin all the hueys at the start but how can you take back the 1.5 hour when two noob squads just walk around uselessly for whole round while enemy tank and APCs torture us on the flags! Will you start punishing anyone acts opposite than the commander orders? (hmmm... actually may be we can do that. isn't that what happens in real army? )

Anyways... at the end we have to remember that this is a game and humans are playing it.

[W4lt3r89]

Second..if we are talking about noob pilots who ruin the game what about noob squads and players? You may restart the map if one noob ruin all the hueys at the start but how can you take back the 1.5 hour when two noob squads just walk around uselessly for whole round while enemy tank and APCs torture us on the flags! Will you start punishing anyone acts opposite than the commander orders? (hmmm... actually may be we can do that. isn't that what happens in real army? )

As someone wise said long ago. "Players are hardcoded"

But there might be some form of system able to do this... If the pilot dies in helo within 30s / 1 min (depending on helicopter), he wont be able to have a pilot kit for 30 or so minutes.. I do believe this game can recognize kits and probably put in limitations on certain players.

Then again, they might be able to dodge the punish by mere reconnection.

[Herbiie]

I agree that noob players mostly ruining all the game but you can't create a punishment system like that.

Why not?

I don't think people realise that if you flip a Heli you die... you take out the Heli and whoever was in the back.

With this, just the pilot who hasn't read the manual or been to a training server (alot fo the people saying this is too harsh are the types that say "RTFM" and have been psoting in places saying that players should read the manual fully before playing) is punished. Seem fair?

I'm not talking about if the Pilot makes a mistake and crashes into a rock, or the sea, or can't break an AA lock - no. This is PURELY before the rotors have spooled up.

[Outlawz7]

I don't think people realise that if you flip a Heli you die...

Really? I thought 'you were killed' in the middle of your screen was a big enough hint.

[Masaq]

The current system is self-selecting darwinism. The pilots who bother to learn how to control the aircraft get to fly, those who don't bother, crash and die repeatedly.

Players observing this kind of newbieism should simply ask an Admin to kick them with the tagline "Wasting assets - please read the manual".

Problem solved.


Edit:
And anyone who wants a better view of ground resonance:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogalle ... r_View.mpg

You'll note that the problem is the fact that rotor blades become unbalanced - two of them slipping out of position and moving closer to the other two, causing uneven distribution of forces.

[[EC]DR.NOobFragger]

Perhaps a system only for jets and helis where you need to fly any of the jets/helis for an hour in a training server to unlock the ability to request a pilot kit or being able to even fly a jet or heli.

I am not even sure if the devs could code this or anything but just my two cents.

[Herbiie]

The current system is self-selecting darwinism. The pilots who bother to learn how to control the aircraft get to fly, those who don't bother, crash and die repeatedly.

And this is fair on the rest of the team how?

With my suggestion the pilots who bother to learn to control the aircraft get to fly, those who don't bother die repeatedly, meaning that the 31 others who do know how to play can keep on playing.

[Tim270]

The current system is self-selecting darwinism. The pilots who bother to learn how to control the aircraft get to fly, those who don't bother, crash and die repeatedly.

... Which is not a solution to punishing the team for 1 person being incompetent.

Either a visual prompt or a re-code is needed imo, Its kinda an exercise in pointlessness making them expolde in this nature when there are much more logical options.

What about having the chopper come 'online' after x amount of time Like the gun in an APC/Tank? still have the warmup effect but you only get control after x amount of time to simulate this.

[Herbiie]

What about having the chopper come 'online' after x amount of time Like the gun in an APC/Tank? still have the warmup effect but you only get control after x amount of time to simulate this.

Imho the point is if you don't know to wait for it to warm up - how are you going to be able to fly the thing effectively?

The point of the flipping is to stop people from crashing, and to stop useless pilots from being able to fly.

[Adetter]

i can re-flip hueys and LBs.................