The JAGM.

[Hunt3r]

You might be saying right now, "What is the JAGM?", "Why would I care?", or "Why are you making another post that will probably waste bandwith?"

Well, good sir, I'd like to talk about the JAGM, or Joint Air to Ground Missile program, and how it might be tied to PR.

The JAGM is a missile program in the US that is designed to replace the TOW, Hellfire II, and AGM-65 Maverick missiles in the Navy Seahawk recon helicopter, the AH-64D Apache, the F/A-18 Super Hornet E/F, the MQ-1C Warrior UAV, and the AH-1Z Viper Cobra.

The JAGM is a program that uses a tri-mode seeker. Semi Automatic Laser Homing, MMW radar, and passive heat contrast guidance.

So the question now is, why does this even matter for Project Reality?

Well, the question is, since PR simulates near-future warfare, where the JAGM would already be adopted, how would it be implemented in PR?

Just something I'd like to know.

As a side note, while we're on the topic of "weapons and vehicles that might be considered adding to PR," I hear the F-35 JSF is replacing the A-10

[Dunehunter]

Hunt3r, the A-10s are currently being upgraded to A-10Cs, at a cost of several billion dollars, so they won't be replaced anytime soon probably

Maintenance unit completes upgrade of 100th A-10

Also, sources?

[Herbiie]

Unless it's being issued it shouldn't be considered.

Other wise I'll start asking for:
Future Lynx - British Army Website
LASM - British Army Website

And whatever else the British Army decides to announce

[anglomanii]

actually i'd like to ask a similar question. what time frame, (what years) are the conflicts portrayed in PR being fought?

[DankE_SPB]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh2010/152.pdf
JAGM is supposed to arrive ~2016 and from what i got from brief search it has not entered serial production yet so can be cut off and thrown to the bin at pretty much any moment

[Ninja2dan]

There is still quite some time to go before the military makes any decision about the JAGM program. It was only Sep 2009 that the two lead companies were awarded their TD contracts, and they have 27 months from that date to submit their entries. In other words, the final stage of the initial testing won't even be complete until Dec 2012 or Jan 2013.

And once the initial testing is finished, the winning contract will then begin their SDD contracts and beyond. And that's only if the DoD even decides to go ahead with a down-select. The SDD and other phases each take several months or more, so it's likely to be at least another 3-4 years before a production-ready system is approved.

Based on their initial estimates, the system won't be ready for deployment until 2016/2017, if all goes smoothly.


Just like other weapon systems, they might be cancelled at the last minute too.

[Hotrod525]

Just like other weapon systems, they might be cancelled at the last minute too.

yeah and thats a pain in the *** for soldier who desperately hopes to have the new system

[Ninja2dan]

yeah and thats a pain in the *** for soldier who desperately hopes to have the new system

There was a bunch of us from several different Battalions who went and trained on the new Crusader Howitzer system, and then at the last moment it was cancelled. It sucks to play with something new and cool, only to have it taken away before you even get it officially issued. It's like telling a kid he's getting a bike for Christmas, then taking it back and giving him a comic book or something instead.


We've seen a lot of new weapon systems throughout the years. Some have made it into service, others didn't quite make it. There have been a few items that I thought would have been great, and others I knew were going to fail. Anyone remember the OICW much? What about the whole Land Warrior program? The list goes on...

This one might make it into service eventually, it might not. But like other questionable items such as weapons, vehicles, and equipment I think it's best that we only add items that are 100% confirmed for service issue.

[Jigsaw]

So the question now is, why does this even matter for Project Reality?

Well, the question is, since PR simulates near-future warfare, where the JAGM would already be adopted, how would it be implemented in PR?

Well actually PR does not have any official timeline, and does not take place in the near future.

As an example West Fallujah is set up to mirror the engagements there between the USMC and Iraqi Insurgents in the mid 2000s. Similarly the planned map Sangin is being designed to re-create an engagement in Afghanistan that took place in 2006.

Therefore, PR will not feature future weapons of any kind. If it is in issue right now, fair enough, but not when it is being prototyped or even worse "planned".

[Hunt3r]

The JAGM is a good idea and it should be implemented.

Reason being that you simplify logistics, so instead of maintaining three different missile systems you just get one.

Dunehunter, the JSF will eventually replace the A-10C, but it's going to take until 2028 or after.

I don't see a reason to get rid of the A-10C though, it works beautifully at delivering CAS, seeing as how that 30mm cannon really delivers the hurt..

[driver-ch-driver]

As a side note, while we're on the topic of "weapons and vehicles that might be considered adding to PR," I hear the F-35 JSF is replacing the A-10

I'm more worried about it replacing Harriers

[Hunt3r]

I'm more worried about it replacing Harriers

Well, if the Harrier ends up in PR some day, but is taken out because "it doesn't fit and the J-35 should be thar," I will be sad.

As a side note, the JAGM in PR would be used in situations like this video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdtNU3-byLo

Hm... fire and forget for attack helicopters? I LIKE IT. But I wonder how they would implement the IR contrast based seeker in say, an Apache...

[Jigsaw]

The JAGM is a good idea and it should be implemented.

So you're just gonna go ahead and ignore what I posted? As stated, regardless of whether or not this system will eventually be implemented in RL, it will not be in PR at this time because it is not currently in use.

[Hunt3r]

So you're just gonna go ahead and ignore what I posted? As stated, regardless of whether or not this system will eventually be implemented in RL, it will not be in PR at this time because it is not currently in use.

Er, I was referring to the fact that JAGM should be pushed into use among all services in the US mil.

Not that it should be implemented in PR.

[Drunkenup]

The JAGM is a good idea and it should be implemented.

Reason being that you simplify logistics, so instead of maintaining three different missile systems you just get one.

Dunehunter, the JSF will eventually replace the A-10C, but it's going to take until 2028 or after.

I don't see a reason to get rid of the A-10C though, it works beautifully at delivering CAS, seeing as how that 30mm cannon really delivers the hurt..

Well the A-10 was a dedicated ground attack aircraft, the attempt that the USAF will try with the F-35 with making it a viable ground attack aircraft will be as much fail as the "A-16". It had a 3 barrel version of the GAU-8 in the A-10, yet it was still a unstable aircraft firing it, and at idle. As of right now, the A-10 is THE Premier attack aircraft of the world probably.

As for the JAGM, as said before, we don't even know if it is to be introduced. Remember the AGM-169 Joint Common Missile? The JCM? It got into testing stages, and was launched from a Apache, Yet it was canceled. As much as I'd like to see it, We'll have to dig this thread back up in 2015.

[Hunt3r]

Well the A-10 was a dedicated ground attack aircraft, the attempt that the USAF will try with the F-35 with making it a viable ground attack aircraft will be as much fail as the "A-16". It had a 3 barrel version of the GAU-8 in the A-10, yet it was still a unstable aircraft firing it, and at idle. As of right now, the A-10 is THE Premier attack aircraft of the world probably.

As for the JAGM, as said before, we don't even know if it is to be introduced. Remember the AGM-169 Joint Common Missile? The JCM? It got into testing stages, and was launched from a Apache, Yet it was canceled. As much as I'd like to see it, We'll have to dig this thread back up in 2015.

The JCM was canceled because they something had to go, with the US mil budget being stretched.

The JAGM is basically the same thing, with a new name. Hoping that it gets in service though, would help with increasing range of the attack helicopters, and if cleared for the A-10C, it should be better at reducing collateral, but with the same range.

[Jaymz]

The JCM was canceled because they something had to go, with the US mil budget being stretched.

The DOD had set a goal for themselves to make a $30 billion saving between 2005 and 2011. The JCM was one of the victims of that since the Hellfire and Longbow do the job that's needed right now.

source : Joint Common Missile is cancelled