"Spare assets"

[killonsight95]

in all situations a spare asset must be kept at main base for emergancies, also it stops wasting of tickets for example if i had 3 apc's and they were all out in the battle and one got destroyed then the other apc would need to wait 20 mins for the apc to respawn to back to full strengh but if you had only 2 apc's out and you lost one then the other would not have to wait, also it keeps extra men as infantry

also it stops the wasting of tickets 3 apcs = 30 tickets
3 apc's can be taken out with one Jdam or one well placed bomb if there spread is not good, also apc's drop like flies so its good to have a spare this goes actualy for all assets

[Hietaa]

Thats BS.

if a squad is locked below the number of assets, then I would kick the SL. if it stays locked i would kick both.

though the best advice is to play Skirmish - no assets

Also I agree that keeping one "Spare" is ok, keeping one Empty if there's another pilot wanting to fly is not. tbh it's more of the usual arrogance of the PR Community, people assume that they are better than everyone else and everyone else is a noob who can't flydrive/shoot - like with Sniper squads, the general thought is "All sniper squads are noobs. unless I do it."

@ Robert, a squad locked with 2 guys hogging all the Hueys isn't going to listen to the commander.

Also guys, you can be in a Heli and not be flying.

So you're saying it is better to have all choppers up and flying just so the guys can do something fun even though your team doesn't need more than 1 chopper at that moment as all of the team is already on land and spawning on firebases needing only occasionally crate.

Also being in the heli and not flying is one of the most useless positions unless you're being transported to somewhere or have stinger with you.

[Herbiie]

So you're saying it is better to have all choppers up and flying just so the guys can do something fun even though your team doesn't need more than 1 chopper at that moment as all of the team is already on land and spawning on firebases needing only occasionally crate.

Also being in the heli and not flying is one of the most useless positions unless you're being transported to somewhere or have stinger with you.

No, I'm saying it's better to have 3 choppers available, which can all be up, if needed, and can alternate runs so that no pilot gets bored, there's a lower risk to the helis.

Even fi your in the Pilots seat you can be landed on the carrier, infact Pilots spend most of their time there some rounds. Always ready to go somewhere, but not needed constantly.

[badmojo420]

So you destroy my” fun” argument with the thesis that someone, a third person will automatically take the huey for a mad joyride and ruin the fun for others? But what if he actually wants to do a good job and help his team, ergo you see his definition of “fun” as flying for the team.

No, i just dislike when people bring up the fun factor to justify what seems to be a wasted space. Like a third helicopter pilot, second medic healing someone, logistics truck passenger, bombcar passenger. I deal with it, i just dislike it is all. Their quest for fun is hurting my chances for long lasting fun.

Look at this situation instead. You got three competent pilots flying. God forbid but two choppers get shot down in a short period of time, well how about this, you still got one left ready and active doing its job and not “warming up”. Will it really matter? If all the FOBs are down and you got no access to “mainland” logistic-trucks then it might be the whole team that needs to step up their game.

You think the probability of losing a helicopter increases the more of them you got in the air simultaneously? Obviously yes.. but its marginal compared to another factor, the human factor, aka you. So how can you dismiss someone for a such small marginal, power-gaming snobbery in my opinion, who are you to judge him unless you know his skills.

Take me for instance. When I fly transport on Muttrah I rarely get shot down. Don’t even remember the last time it happened. I don’t fly often but when I do I use common sense and avoid obvious dangerous places and hot LZ’s. You really think I it matters for me if I got one more “spare” if I get shot down? It’s simple, at later stages I just restrain myself from flying or change squad unless someone really needs a quick safe LZ. This is my definition of “fun” But I don’t judge or discriminate anyone from taking the other assets. If some lucky/snaky H-AT gets me, so be it. If the other parts of the team plays poorly than it won’t really matter ..

Everyone has their own opinion about how they want this game to be played and you can obviously change sever if you don’t like their rules. But please be more specific about “Name your squad after its Asset” as many servers actually use this rule but in a slightly different manner. Just checked that server site and it reads nothing about “spare” assets management. Even if might be something situational you really need to be clear on this matter.



I respect that you acknowledge this but I don’t see it the same way.

You seem to assume I dislike the idea of you flying the heli because i believe you to be a poor pilot who will crash. I never said that. Nor did i intend to imply that. It is inevitable that helicopters will get shot down or get destroyed by a lag spike, or whatever. It happens to everyone. My problem was having ANY third helicopter pilot when you already have two that are doing just fine.

I bet if you asked the SL of the transport squad if he could either get kicked, or turn the locked 2 man squad over to you, making you one of the ONLY two pilots on the team, he would give up his spot. Because he would pick up a rifle and join a squad that needed the extra person.

[Killer-Ape]

You really bring up some bad points. Do you even fully understand the game-play mechanics

second medic healing someone

Why Is it bad for a second medic to help if he can? Twice as fast to heal someone, half the time sitting exposed on the battlefield.

logistics truck passenger

The fact that Hummers only take five passengers makes it a necessity to bring passengers inside the logistic truck. You can’t transport a full squad of soldiers inside a hummer so you let four guys man it as your escort. Not five as in case your escort gets destroyed you still got one man who can help you set up a rally and shovel FOB. You don’t actually let a logistic truck drive alone anyway.

bombcar passenger

And why do you even care if someone shares a bomb-car? It’s not like insurgents got tickets to burn from losing lives and if you are actually driving that car just tell him to get out/kick from squad or contact admin if hes not your in squad, or just let him die when you do. Unless you are some kind of efficient combat construct sent from the future by sky-net how can this really affect you..

The “helo-transport” squad can still communicate and take orders the their SL like a normal squad, what makes you think that this third person won’t follow orders? If he needs to keep his helicopter on stand –by at the carrier and wait so be it. Eventually he will be needed anyway, I don't see any problem.

I bet if you asked the SL of the transport squad if he could either get kicked, or turn the locked 2 man squad over to you, making you one of the ONLY two pilots on the team, he would give up his spot. Because he would pick up a rifle and join a squad that needed the extra person.

Good one

[mongol-horde]

freeplay ftw. those people who use same tactics from one round to another (example - tanks moving at kashan or kufrah edge) are annoying and gay to me. to my taste its better to lose a tank and make opponents team happy and have interesting gameplay than having only one aim of moving by the edge not being hit and having uberboring passive playing every next time, but according to rules, and play it over and over and over and over the same way in a squad with retards who'll kick you once you dont want to obey their idiocy, or being kicked for not having a 1st tank squad.
for someone its epic fun to lay in some doorway with stg44 in call of duty, for me it was always fun to smash their heads with mosin buttstock.
point is, if there is a crew for a tank, they may take it if they want no matter who is 1st to open the squad.
empty choppers flying can be a mistake, but should there be only one chopper to have chopper wars? if its enough to have one in air. then baserape should be allowed if server has this 'spare' policy, so it'd be better to keep all assets used instead of keeping them for another knight of keyboard and mouse.

[killonsight95]

^ yeah but you'll loose tickets and loose the game winning is what you want to do in this game you don't play a game to loose

[mongol-horde]

why not to play with bots then? same joy...
i play to win, of course, but not using the same ways that proved successful before all the time. i dont use choppers, so i cant bother in this part.
to explain myself better or simplier... enemy would not wait for you to leave the base, especially knowing its not defended, and has assets there, he'll strike the base and cause you more losses that it could if you used those assets against him the best way you could. spare + nobaserape system is pro those greedy superheroes who want to use assets only for themselves.
and you know, sometimes rounds are so long... and very boring at the same time... you wait for a chopper to fly by... you wait for an apc to appear... no infantry at sight but probably they are just being locked for same squad... and you wait, tickets arent being lost... and kashan lasts for 3 hours without any notable action as tanks are protecting map edges. but yes, tickets are preserved.

[killonsight95]

because that to easy

[Herbiie]

^ yeah but you'll loose tickets and loose the game winning is what you want to do in this game you don't play a game to loose

A decent Tank Crew won't hug the edge, they'll dominate the ground.

Try to think of MBTs as armour Snipers, moving from one spot to another, "Sniping" enemy armour, Logistics trucks, humvees, Helis etc. always with the risk of being found by an attack Heli/Spandrel/Jet and you'll have a much better tank crew.

[Rudd]

map assets in pubber configuration need to have as few assets as required

this is important especially on maps with asymmetrical warfare

using muttrah as an example, 3LBs and 3 Hueys is a whole squad in the air with more transport slots than are ever requred, teh LBs inparticular are a waste as they cannot drop supplies.

Yes...people should be smart enough not to use all 6, as this effectively keeps a potential combat squad out of the loop, making the team shorthanded, however this is the Real World, and in the Real world people are stupid.

Put assets on a map, and people will use them even if its not the best tactical or strategic choice.

e.g. Qwai, 2 strykers are an asset group, 4 are a ticket bleed.

Right now I cannot think of a better system than simply keeping asset numbers low on most maps, exceptions being 4k combined arms maps in order to ensure there are enough infantry and also not to hamstring a team with a lack of infantry or combat troops, at least I cant think of a way of doing it with just the bf2 tools themselves.

[Sgt. Mahi]

Spare assets are retarded all the way. It is the map that has too many assets if there are "spares". If you get shot down you should wait for your own chopper to respawn.... I'm just as disgusted about this kind of assets handling as you are Killer-Ape.

[galeknight1]

I find it annoying the PR community always comes to the defence of an action because of the 'what ifs' and 'maybes', and when people say 'find a better server' when the person in question is trying to put his point out to everyone so that admins and players can take note, not so members can nitpick at the post. The point in question, 'Spare Asset's, is selfish. This 'wasted tickets' point is useless, as the helicopter is grounded anyway when not needed, so all a third one is doing is speeding the process.

[scope]

I think having a spare heli is acceptable on maps like muttrah. If all the choppers are up and a lag spike comes...no more transport for quite a while. There really isn't that much that 3 choppers can do that 2 cannot. Never hurts to have a backup standing by. This at least ensures that at least 1 chopper is up at all times for trans and supply's.

[badmojo420]

You really bring up some bad points. Do you even fully understand the game-play mechanics

More than most.

Why Is it bad for a second medic to help if he can? Twice as fast to heal someone, half the time sitting exposed on the battlefield.

It even says it in the loading tips. Do you really want me to explain it to you?

The fact that Hummers only take five passengers makes it a necessity to bring passengers inside the logistic truck. You can’t transport a full squad of soldiers inside a hummer so you let four guys man it as your escort. Not five as in case your escort gets destroyed you still got one man who can help you set up a rally and shovel FOB. You don’t actually let a logistic truck drive alone anyway.

I was speaking of a logistics truck as in the sense of a logistics squad. Not some kind of make shift transport when a squad rolls out needing to take supplies with them. In that case, it would be fine. When I'm zooming around Basrah in a logi truck dropping crates or providing repairs, the last thing I need is a passenger to get in the way or lose a ticket when he gets killed. It's true, he could take over in the event of me being shot, but those trucks can take a lot of fire, so the benefit would be minimal at best.

And why do you even care if someone shares a bomb-car? It’s not like insurgents got tickets to burn from losing lives and if you are actually driving that car just tell him to get out/kick from squad or contact admin if hes not your in squad, or just let him die when you do. Unless you are some kind of efficient combat construct sent from the future by sky-net how can this really affect you..

Insurgent deaths give the coalition intelligence. And I usually play day after day with the same regular players. If i started freaking out every time someone did something i disliked, I would piss off a lot of people who I have to continue playing with.

The “helo-transport” squad can still communicate and take orders the their SL like a normal squad, what makes you think that this third person won’t follow orders? If he needs to keep his helicopter on stand –by at the carrier and wait so be it. Eventually he will be needed anyway, I don't see any problem.

I didn't say you wouldn't follow orders. Just that if the two helicopters are sitting around doing next to nothing, maybe a 3rd person sitting next to them would be a waste of man power.

Good one

You don't believe there are people would put their teams needs ahead of their own desires?

[badmojo420]

You really bring up some bad points. Do you even fully understand the game-play mechanics

More than most.

Why Is it bad for a second medic to help if he can? Twice as fast to heal someone, half the time sitting exposed on the battlefield.

It even says it in the loading tips. Do you really want me to explain it to you?

The fact that Hummers only take five passengers makes it a necessity to bring passengers inside the logistic truck. You can’t transport a full squad of soldiers inside a hummer so you let four guys man it as your escort. Not five as in case your escort gets destroyed you still got one man who can help you set up a rally and shovel FOB. You don’t actually let a logistic truck drive alone anyway.

I was speaking of a logistics truck as in the sense of a logistics squad. Not some kind of make shift transport when a squad rolls out needing to take supplies with them. In that case, it would be fine. When I'm zooming around Basrah in a logi truck dropping crates or providing repairs, the last thing I need is a passenger to get in the way or lose a ticket when he gets killed. It's true, he could take over in the event of me being shot, but those trucks can take a lot of fire, so the benefit would be minimal at best.

And why do you even care if someone shares a bomb-car? It’s not like insurgents got tickets to burn from losing lives and if you are actually driving that car just tell him to get out/kick from squad or contact admin if hes not your in squad, or just let him die when you do. Unless you are some kind of efficient combat construct sent from the future by sky-net how can this really affect you..

Insurgent deaths give the coalition intelligence. And I usually play day after day with the same regular players. If i started freaking out every time someone did something i disliked, I would piss off a lot of people who I have to continue playing with.

The “helo-transport” squad can still communicate and take orders the their SL like a normal squad, what makes you think that this third person won’t follow orders? If he needs to keep his helicopter on stand –by at the carrier and wait so be it. Eventually he will be needed anyway, I don't see any problem.

I didn't say you wouldn't follow orders. Just that if the two helicopters are already sitting around doing next to nothing, maybe a 3rd person sitting next to them would be a waste of man power.

Good one

You don't believe there are people would put their teams needs ahead of their own desires?

[Herbiie]

:O

Evil Double Post!



Also as others have said - "Spare Assets" is just selfish - you don't own the server, it's not your decision. There are 3 assets. That means if 3 people want to man them, one shouldn't be told to bugger off because the other 2 want a spare one, all 3 should man them.

Also stop with the Waste of tickets BS. On the few occasions I've run a Heli squad, or more usually been co-ordinating air assets as commander, I like to have 3 on standby that can go to a extraction, supply run, or w.e as soon as i tell them, rather than 2.

Like I said - 3 Helis doesn't mean 3 Helis in the air at all times. 3 helis mean that there is potentially 3 squads that can quickly redeploy at all times, 3 Helicopter available for different missions, and all 3 can be "spare". You can have "Spare" assets - doesn't mean that YOU have to fly them.

[Killer-Ape]

Th3Exiled

Your logic can be applied to every asset. Take APC's on Muttrah. You lose one, two guys must now wait on the carrier for it to re-spawn or join another squad. Whatever they pick, you won't see them kicking *** anytime soon. They might even go for some hybrid two man infantry squad taking special kits to kill time before the APC spawns. Seen this happen many times.

Jabal has three Transport Hueys, usually three are needed at start as other squads like going to the mainland asap. I also believe that if you keep three helicopter active, not all need to be in the air at the same time. Then you can respond to crate/relocation requests even more efficiently. I hardly think that two can really cut it as we had some real supply crate demands and no logistic trucks. So what if one player gets shot down and waits on the carrier. Do you really believe that the rest of your team works at 100% efficiency? We are talking about public games. And you obsess about one person waiting, who might even be a good pilot anyway?

Don't misunderstand me. On maps like Muttrah common sense tells us not to use all the helis at the same time. But even some experienced Huey pilots do it wrong.

[Bonsai]

A reasonably good Commander could be the solution for all mentioned "problems".

It would be his responsibility to assign assets to squad and to use the crews otherwise if they have to wait for the asset to respawn. It would be his job as well to decide how many assets should be used and where to deploy them...

Shame we have not enough "rewards/points/cookies/whatever" to encourage a CO in every game.