Slower gameplay

[Japub]

I first started playing PR in 0.6 and I remember that the first game I ever played in, I ended up with a very good squad (at this time there were like 5 full servers or so in the evenings). We were playing Assault on Mestia and I had this feeling everything went slowly, we had a very tactical approach and I didn't dare do anything that could blow our cover. Everything seemed to be extremly important. We could even sit still for like 5 minutes just waiting, observing things before anything actually happened (I know this occurs today as well but somehow it seems less frequent). This could be a bit tiresome but when things happened the action was so much greater. Unlike BF2 vanilla, CS or any other FPS, time seemed to be of less important. Focus was on staying alive, keeping silent and awaiting the next order from the SL. The revolutionary thing was that focus was rather more on teamwork and that the SQ accomplished it's goal, instead of the individual's kills.

It's hard for me to see if I'm just romanticizing this whole thing or if this actually is a correct observation. Because as I remember it this was pretty much the same feeling I had for the following months until PR started growing. With the new patches there were new things tested (which of course is good and I understand the idea from the DEVs that they wanna test as much as possible) and suddenly the game changed. Nowadays at the edge of a 0.9 release PR looks more like this to me:

Focus is on: Taking objectives ASAP, there's usually no time for a squad briefing before the round starts. That'll be dealt with as the SQ is on the move, if there's time. Now it seems like time is the decisive factor for gameplay.

My understanding of the situation is that PR has gotten closer to the CS-kind-of-gameplay rather than slow gameplay. Fast gameplay makes the importance of staying alive less important since you can quickly respawn and get back into the fight. And I think this could also be a drawback for tactics and things in the future. Focus is more on kills than on teamwork.

Two things that I come to think of that could change this:
Larger maps (which I believe is the DEV's ambition for future PR as well) could of course be a solution to this. I experience gameplay on Op. Archer alot better than on like Sunset City. There's more of an adventure on Archer, you're far away from base and you're relying on supplies from helicopters and stuff.

Firebases are very easily destroyed. This makes fights around FB's rare. What if they would be really hard to take out? Then the defending team would have time to fall back to defend it, while the other team would know they had to push on more. Nowadays it's more like "****, they took out our FB. Well... no point in saving it now. It's already gone" (If you're very close there would sometimes be an option to save it but mostly not). I think there's a greater potential for FB's in PR than they have now.

[killonsight95]

i think what you are saying here is
you need bigger maps (which are being worked on)
firebases harder to destroy (we shall see what they do in 0.9 with rallies)
i think they said somewhere that they will be givng the FOB "system" a re-do

[Japub]

Yes. I'd like to hear other things as well though. I didn't make myself clear enough. These were just two suggestions that could make a change. Mostly I wish to make people think about it more and to suggest stuff out of that starting point. Suggestions now mostly seem to concentrate on objects and detailed stuff, and not so much on gameplay (which in the long run is most important).

[BloodBane611]

I played muttrah on the virginia server yesterday. I was on the USMC team with only 3 squads because of the squad bug, and we still won the map in about an hour and a half. There was no focus on kills, even though we were so obviously screwed over by the squad bug, and we did better than most teams that don't have any handicaps on muttrah.

Teamwork still exists in PR, just gotta find the good servers.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

Among other things that you've mentioned, map design and objective placement play a big part in the rate of gameplay.

Sunset City is a perfect example you gave as it has 1 objective surrounded by buildings. Unless you're fighting around the hilly outskirts, Sunset City is pretty much a race (tard-rush) to the flag to dig yourself in before the enemy gets there. Maps like Mesia as you mentioned, stealth plays a bigger role and you can take your time walking through the woods with your squad slowly working your way to the objectives.

As PR progresses, certain maps are out-grown as the gameplay changes.

[Sniper77shot]

Maps in pr are already big the 4km ones, and it says there are 8km ones but I have never seen one on pr yet. The maps are large enough.

[gazzthompson]

Maps in pr are already big the 4km ones, and it says there are 8km ones but I have never seen one on pr yet. The maps are large enough.

there are only 2(?) 4km maps in PR and no 8km maps.

[google]

While weapons are more in-accurate, living is more important, and dying can mess up an entire team, I do agree that the game certainly feels much more rushed now. In my opinion, three factors play into this.

1. Flags: As the OP said, the game seems to be much more about high KDs in order to win. With current flags, there is rarely any bleed making it so that flags rather lose their importance. PR has become less objective based, but rather teamwide KDs are now more important. The increase in flag sizes also plays into this. Flags are just so hard to cap now adays without coordination of more than 2 or 3 squads. While this slows down gameplay, flags, once again, become less important as they are sometimes just not worth putting the effort into.

This increase in flag size also makes maps much more cramped. Take a map such as Muttrah. There is no point in the US going beyond the North City flag as it is simply impossible to hold on to all the flags all the way through the city. There is constant fighting due to this. Take smaller maps, such as Assault on Mestia. They used to feel large because the actual flags were smaller objectives, and there were more of them. People who no longer like 1km maps simply have the 300m cap radiuses to blame. In short, PR has lost focus on objectives and attacking.

2. Ticket Cost of Assets: Once again, stress is put on tickets and KDs in order to win. Vehicles are played a little too conservatively for my liking these days. Why risk the tickets, helping an attacking squad, when you can simply fall back and camp an objective? On some maps, such as qwai, it's not even worth taking out the chinese APCs if the US have a skilled TOW team because the APCs become a source of ticket loss for the team. It's a shame that assets are valued by tickets as opposed how they can help the team.

3. Current rifle setup/deviation: Currently, rifle deviation becomes a little too ridiculous. Moving up from cover to cover becomes is less effective because one has to wait a full 4 seconds to properly engage anyone at a mere 100m (which is pathetic). This combined with the ridiculousness of the LMG (yes it's powerful IRL, but it can be abused so easily through bf2 engine drawbacks and I don't feel like repeating myself for the 100th time) only encourages jack-in-the box firefights and reduces the effectiveness of proper tactics. If anything, firefights are now based on luck and how fast you can move your pinky. So, what's the point of even moving if it reduces your chances heavily and might break your positive KD, which is the only important aspect of the game nowadays. Besides, even if you cap that flag any attempt at pushing other objectives doesn't actually do anything for you or the team.

[Conman51]

I do agree on slower gameplay but there isnt too much the DEVs can do besides what they already have done,

my suggestion to slow down infantry based combat is to make weapons slightly more accurate and give them all a little more damage, so people die with 2 hits from any rifle and maybe 3 or 4 from pistols

[SilentWarrior]

Ppl already die with 2 hits from any rifle at acceptable range.

Since they put in the automatic snipers it is pointless to move slowly at range and then slowly move in because pretty much any squad even if alone can defend an objective against anything not heavy (and even heavy have hard time).

So, the gameplay changed into a quick rush to set up defensive position and let the MG light up anything soft from range. Even snipers are much more pointless now, all you need is a squad leader with binoculars and an MG and you can pretty much say bye bye to the sniper, he wont have time to line up a shot while beeing shot, even if he can actually hit while suppressed, and the way the graphics engine hides any cover at range doesnt make it easier either.

Stealth still plays an important role ... but not so much as it did before since you can pretty much forget about stealth until you are at either:
1- 150 meter from enemy position
2- behind a hill

The new FOB system without rallies will even make it more dificult to be stealth, since the enemy can easily spot the FOB or track its location if it aint well hidden (good players always find them within seconds because they know all the good spots).

The fob system would work if :
1- had really good defenses
2- when you spawn you would have some cover against spawn killers
3- provide way of engaging the enemy behind cover
4- team would provide cover fire for new squads that just spawn to move out (fob defenses should be fun enough for players to actually enjoy using them, or else they will continue empty just like they are now)
5- only allow 2 FOBs per map, so that they would actually be used where it matters
6- keep rallies while only allowing a certain number of spawns to happen, say 6 spawns per each 10 minutes, so that if you kill the enemy squad, they can spawn, but if they get quickly taken out they cant just rush back in, infinite "charges" no point penalizing good realocation of the rally while keeping timer tho.
7- optional, only allow FOBs to be put in plain areas or areas with large constructuable area so that all defenses could be put without exploiting any bugs ... think flying FOBs on buildings

Maybe like this, it would slow down the game...

[Jigsaw]

Firstly, I disagree. I think PR gameplay is slow enough atm, although there are a few maps that have outstayed their welcome, PR gameplay is such a long way from CS:S that the comparison is irrelevant.

Secondly, I believe that all of your concerns are being addressed by new developments to the spawn system (if you played the RP beta you will know about this), which really help the pace of the game. Additionally several of the older spammier maps are being removed and are being replaced by maps that are on a far greater scale. The PR team are no longer accepting any maps smaller than 2km^2, and the emphasis is shifting greatly to very large maps which inherently will bring a slower pace of gameplay.

So really in my view this is a bit of a non-suggestion as everything that you wish for is being taken care of already

[Japub]

While weapons are more in-accurate, living is more important, and dying can mess up an entire team, I do agree that the game certainly feels much more rushed now. In my opinion, three factors play into this.

1. Flags: As the OP said, the game seems to be much more about high KDs in order to win. With current flags, there is rarely any bleed making it so that flags rather lose their importance. PR has become less objective based, but rather teamwide KDs are now more important. The increase in flag sizes also plays into this. Flags are just so hard to cap now adays without coordination of more than 2 or 3 squads. While this slows down gameplay, flags, once again, become less important as they are sometimes just not worth putting the effort into.

This increase in flag size also makes maps much more cramped. Take a map such as Muttrah. There is no point in the US going beyond the North City flag as it is simply impossible to hold on to all the flags all the way through the city. There is constant fighting due to this. Take smaller maps, such as Assault on Mestia. They used to feel large because the actual flags were smaller objectives, and there were more of them. People who no longer like 1km maps simply have the 300m cap radiuses to blame. In short, PR has lost focus on objectives and attacking.

6- keep rallies while only allowing a certain number of spawns to happen, say 6 spawns per each 10 minutes, so that if you kill the enemy squad, they can spawn, but if they get quickly taken out they cant just rush back in, infinite "charges" no point penalizing good realocation of the rally while keeping timer tho.

These two suggestions makes very much sense.

Firstly, I disagree. I think PR gameplay is slow enough atm, although there are a few maps that have outstayed their welcome, PR gameplay is such a long way from CS:S that the comparison is irrelevant.

Secondly, I believe that all of your concerns are being addressed by new developments to the spawn system (if you played the RP beta you will know about this), which really help the pace of the game. Additionally several of the older spammier maps are being removed and are being replaced by maps that are on a far greater scale. The PR team are no longer accepting any maps smaller than 2km^2, and the emphasis is shifting greatly to very large maps which inherently will bring a slower pace of gameplay.

So really in my view this is a bit of a non-suggestion as everything that you wish for is being taken care of already

I hope your right.

[Teufel Eldritch]

I'm a newbie. I only first playing a year ago & took a hiatus even until just recently but I would have to say that yes gameplay seems awfuly fast even on the teamwork oriented servers. I've been in some damn good squads(shout out to TG peeps!) but even then it seems awfully fast a lot of the time. Granted there are times when it isn't so fast but more often than not everything just seems to happen quickly. IMO PR should be like good sex. Quickies can be fun, but the most fun is when you take your time, don't rush it & pay attn to the details.

As for the update, what the future holds... I eagerly wait. After it's released I may change my opinion. Can't speak on what I haven't played.

[Bringerof_D]

personally i agree with whoever said more accuracy would help, i really like 0.65, albeit just slightly too accurate, even in bum rushes to flags, individuals and squads had to move tactically and from cover to cover, and if they quickly out maneuvered the enemy they win.

where as now it's become TOO slow paced. since out maneuvering the enemy means you expose yourself and that you cant hit jack for 4 seconds. everyone just the moment they engage, sit still and see who's the best shot. the principles of basic infantry maneuvers are now mostly useless. Even leap frogging is ineffective as once you get to your cover, your buddy has to keep the enemy suppressed for another 4 seconds before you can start covering him.

all in all the stealth and tactical maneuvers i believe have been greatly effected by deviation alone. Stealth is still effective but there's less fear of being exposed for a second because you know in that second no one can hit you, where as back when we had LAZORS if you were in close proximity to enemy like within 100m you were crawling by choice even if they didnt have a clear view of your area

if it would be possible to code i believe this would be a more realistic representation of deviation, while moving in any stance you have the same deviation as now but the moment you stop moving your deviation drops dramatically to a certain point accurate enough to engage anything up to 150m after that deviation will slowly decline untill you have the max effective range of the weapon over the course of 3-4 seconds. i will add a graph later on to show what i mean

[Tofurkeymeister]

To slow down gameplay all you have to do is reduce the amount of sprint energy. Remember 0.8 ?

[mat552]

Tofurkeymeister I laughed. OP wants slower gameplay, not tedious gameplay. There's such a fine line to walk in that regard.

[McBumLuv]

To slow down gameplay all you have to do is reduce the amount of sprint energy. Remember 0.8 ?

Heh, or increase deviation so that you must sneak up on the enemy within 50 meters in order to produce any effect

[boilerrat]

.9 so far feels like such a large release that right now to me at least feels like a "wait and see" time where we should hold off on suggestions.

Especially any firebase, area attack, insurgent related things

[Conman51]

personally i agree with whoever said more accuracy would help, i really like 0.65, albeit just slightly too accurate, even in bum rushes to flags, individuals and squads had to move tactically and from cover to cover, and if they quickly out maneuvered the enemy they win.

where as now it's become TOO slow paced. since out maneuvering the enemy means you expose yourself and that you cant hit jack for 4 seconds. everyone just the moment they engage, sit still and see who's the best shot. the principles of basic infantry maneuvers are now mostly useless. Even leap frogging is ineffective as once you get to your cover, your buddy has to keep the enemy suppressed for another 4 seconds before you can start covering him.

all in all the stealth and tactical maneuvers i believe have been greatly effected by deviation alone. Stealth is still effective but there's less fear of being exposed for a second because you know in that second no one can hit you, where as back when we had LAZORS if you were in close proximity to enemy like within 100m you were crawling by choice even if they didnt have a clear view of your area

if it would be possible to code i believe this would be a more realistic representation of deviation, while moving in any stance you have the same deviation as now but the moment you stop moving your deviation drops dramatically to a certain point accurate enough to engage anything up to 150m after that deviation will slowly decline untill you have the max effective range of the weapon over the course of 3-4 seconds. i will add a graph later on to show what i mean

agreed, i first noticed this in FH2, look at that game, they dont have any suppressive effects or things to encourage teamwork, just accurate hard hitting rifles, and at least when i play it there are squads moving together and people taking cover n stuff