When can you shoot civilians?

[Protector]

Doesn't killing a collaborator not only lose you points but your whole team? Bit selfish of you to help towards your team losing just so you can get a kill?

[Herbiie]

I see a lot of insurgents that are using the civvies as cover, like standing behind them with an rpg. If i see that, i will kill both of them, because if i wait for him to move, it might be too late and the rpg could have blown up a friendly vehicle already. For the rest of the time, i just ignore them as long as they are not healing someone or climbing up a rope.

You say that like it doesn't happen. Civvis are used as shields (not as close) in real life, the Taliban especially have herded groups of civilians out infront of them and fired over their heads.

Also - just be a good shot and kill the RP dude, you have no idea how much it annoys him

[Spec]

All real life arguments aside: Think of the player playing the civilian. We're here to have fun, not to sit in front of a black screen with a huge spawn time. That's why you shouldn't shoot them - they want to enjoy the game and since they can't fight back, it is easily ruined for them if they are constantly shot.
Players who play armed classes can fight back and being shot isn't completely destroying the game for them, it's part of the challenge. But for civilians, surviving should NOT be the primary challenge, and making it one is decreasing the fun of playing them way too much. Try not to shoot them unless they are clearly asking for it (like driving a suicide car).

[Protector]

Arrest (kill) the blufor if they kill a collaborator who hasn't breached the rules within the last minute. That will soon stop all these idiots just shooting whatever they want. Trigger happy nut jobs.

Edit. Like Spec Operator I really enjoy playing as collaborator and have killed a fair few enemies just by leading them into ambushes but the spawn time and trigger happy blufor can ruin the experience for you. 4x the normal spawn time for being shot is a bit heavy.

[mat552]

Edit. Like Spec Operator I really enjoy playing as collaborator and have killed a fair few enemies just by leading them into ambushes

This is one of the reasons I shoot collaborators. Who knows what kind of shenanigans they could be up too? (The one thing the game makes absolutely certain knowledge is that any and all players on the field are either bluefor or opfor. There are no civilians, just targets that can't shoot back, but are providing intel and aid to the ones that can.)

The utter certainty that the collab is up to no good, coupled with the ease of discovering caches from trigger happy RPG and PKM gunners, completed with the reward of putting an enemy combatant out of the fight for a significant period of time combine to form the triangle of collab death.

[USMCMIDN]

All real life arguments aside: Think of the player playing the civilian. We're here to have fun, not to sit in front of a black screen with a huge spawn time. That's why you shouldn't shoot them - they want to enjoy the game and since they can't fight back, it is easily ruined for them if they are constantly shot.
Players who play armed classes can fight back and being shot isn't completely destroying the game for them, it's part of the challenge. But for civilians, surviving should NOT be the primary challenge, and making it one is decreasing the fun of playing them way too much. Try not to shoot them unless they are clearly asking for it (like driving a suicide car).

well than dont play as meat shields... if you make the argument that ur there to have fun the bluefor are there to have fun too...what if they are being used as meat shields and the bluefor gets killed....how about just playing smart as civi and not doing anything stupid like te meat shield or standing on an IED waiting for someone to arrest him and then getting shot because the IED can b seen..... a civi is someone that is not a combatant but when you do give aid in some way to the taliban or insurgents you become an combatant and can be engaged IRL thats how the game should be.

[Spec]

I never defended the use of civilians as shields. That is a situation in which the civilian knows he will risk his life. His fault if he dies after deciding to be a shield.

Problem is that some people here suggest to shoot civilians on sight because they give away intel. Yes they do. Yes, you as Blufor player know it. And yes, it's better for your team to shoot them.

But:
If you want to be realistic - you would not know they are collaborators IRL and have no reason to shoot them
If you want to be fair - let them have fun doing their job and don't shoot them
If you want to win at all costs - well, shoot them, but that is, in my opinion, bad sportsmanship.

[Snazz]

how about just playing smart as civi and not doing anything stupid

It doesn't make a difference, I get shot as a collaborator no matter what I'm doing. Besides, the way some collaborators play doesn't excuse other players being plain trigger happy and not even bothering to arrest.

The utter certainty that the collab is up to no good, coupled with the ease of discovering caches from trigger happy RPG and PKM gunners, completed with the reward of putting an enemy combatant out of the fight for a significant period of time combine to form the triangle of collab death.

That defeats the whole point of there being collaborators if you just treat them like armed insurgents, you're meant to be arresting them or only resorting to shooting when you've actually caught them using a medpack/grapple hook (being 'up to no good').

Each time you're punished for killing a collaborator your team is losing intel and you're losing points. So the reward is actually when you catch them red handed or arrest them, giving your team more intel.

[Truism]

I assume you're joking.

Of course.

Like always... so easy to sit and write by typing words. pffff

Not sure what you mean. Shit happens in the fog of war. Sometimes that shit is justifiable later, sometimes it isn't.

The way civilians are killed in PR wouldn't be justifiable ever. It's not terribly far below the Airport level in MW2, which so many people riled against on these forums. I don't want to sounds all SRS BZNS about it, being a computer game and all, but all it is is murder. ROE is a huge part of modern warfare, and used to be the defining feature of Insurgency, it doesn't do Project REALITY any favours to play so hard and fast with it.

No one at all has appreciated the role that Civilians were recast when they were called Collaborators - not one person would prefer the Cell Phone Mortars and Epipens to not being shot, and it's really made Insurgency hellish to play as Insurgents.

I won't lie for a second though, the main reason the Civi change pissed me off was because the best times I ever had playing PR were in Civilian Squads before they were ruined. We'd run aroud playing pranks on the Coalition, pelting rocks, having little riots. At one stage we found that an Insurgent who picked up a Coalition Sniper kit looked absolutely identical to a Civilian, much fun was had with that. We'd play tag in the desert with Coalition forces constrained by a meaningful ROE, and frankly both sides enjoyed it more. It added a lot of flavour to PR.

I remember one game when the entire Insurgent team went civilian and were standing in a hoard of 30 players immediately in the vicinity of the last cache. Showing unusual clarity of thought and co-ordination, our entire team formed a riot line and advanced, clearing the odd insurgent who was capitalising on all the civilians with a gun, and advancing, arresting as we went, moving on the Cache.

When was the last time you quelled a riot in PR?

[Protector]

Yes Collaborators are up to no good all the time that is why they are called collaborators and not civilians but just think next time before shooting one, this game needs a sense of role play I believe to really immerse you into the experience and collabs play a big part in that.

[Snazz]

Of course.

Good, It just wasn't entirely clear because some people are actually seriously arguing the point that you satire-d.

When was the last time you quelled a riot in PR?

I sadly didn't get to do much of that kind of thing, but I enjoyed it a lot more than the typical engagement nowadays.

Yes Collaborators are up to no good all the time that is why they are called collaborators and not civilians

If they are 'up to no good' all the time, then why would you ever be punished for killing them?

I think they should be called civilians, innocent until caught in the act of actually collaborating.

[Mongolian_dude]

Personally, I tend to shoot civilians whenever they look at me funny. This has proved effective thus far.

...mongol...

[Snazz]

I hope the DEVs are taking notice, if it's not already obvious enough from game play.

Basically a lot of people don't care about the penalties and don't respect the intentions of having a collaborator system in Insurgency.

As a result I think the collaborator class, it's excessive spawn time and the rules of engagement are quite pointless. It may as well just be medic. Which to me is a shame as it could be a lot of fun and make the overall game mode more interesting.

[Dorkweed]

Of course.



Not sure what you mean. Shit happens in the fog of war. Sometimes that shit is justifiable later, sometimes it isn't.

The way civilians are killed in PR wouldn't be justifiable ever. It's not terribly far below the Airport level in MW2, which so many people riled against on these forums. I don't want to sounds all SRS BZNS about it, being a computer game and all, but all it is is murder. ROE is a huge part of modern warfare, and used to be the defining feature of Insurgency, it doesn't do Project REALITY any favours to play so hard and fast with it.

No one at all has appreciated the role that Civilians were recast when they were called Collaborators - not one person would prefer the Cell Phone Mortars and Epipens to not being shot, and it's really made Insurgency hellish to play as Insurgents.

I won't lie for a second though, the main reason the Civi change pissed me off was because the best times I ever had playing PR were in Civilian Squads before they were ruined. We'd run aroud playing pranks on the Coalition, pelting rocks, having little riots. At one stage we found that an Insurgent who picked up a Coalition Sniper kit looked absolutely identical to a Civilian, much fun was had with that. We'd play tag in the desert with Coalition forces constrained by a meaningful ROE, and frankly both sides enjoyed it more. It added a lot of flavour to PR.

I remember one game when the entire Insurgent team went civilian and were standing in a hoard of 30 players immediately in the vicinity of the last cache. Showing unusual clarity of thought and co-ordination, our entire team formed a riot line and advanced, clearing the odd insurgent who was capitalising on all the civilians with a gun, and advancing, arresting as we went, moving on the Cache.

When was the last time you quelled a riot in PR?

Damn, that sounds EPIC!!!!

[Dorkweed]

+1

When I play as collaborator, my experience usually goes along the lines of spawning, being shot for doing nothing more than running down the street, waiting a horribly long time to respawn, then promptly being shot again. To most players, the collaborator is just something fun to shoot at that can't return fire.

Yes, that's what I hear a lot from some squad mates. They wonder why I tell them not to shoot at collaborators. They like to be used as 'target practice'.

[503]

I remember in the Raid of Fallujah event where if someone kills two civilians, they get banned from the server and, man once I killed one civilian, I held my shot at every insurgent I saw to check if he was a civilian or not.

[Ford_Jam]

If they get in my way, I'll put them down.

One thing I hate is when they stand with their hands up infront of the guy I'm trying to kill. If you do this and I'm there, you're a dead civi