Squadleaders: Rethink your own position please

[Sgt. Mahi]

Hey guys

I've been playing as a medic recently more than I would like to but the medic has yet again become a kit that noone really wants to play. When a squadleader ask "who wants to go medic?" I think we can all nodd to the experience that the whole squad goes dead silent. I usually go medic if the squad remains silent but to be honest I too am getting tired of the medic job.

Why you ask? Well... There seems to be a rising attitude that the medic should try to revive you no matter what... This is wrong!!! The medic should not walk into line of fire to save your sorry *** just because you didn't think twice. Walking over a hill where you KNOW an APC or a SAW is waiting is just dumb in every way but requesting a medic to try to get you up afterwards, when you know there are enemies scoped in on your body is not only dumb... it's arrogant!!! Yes the medic can deploy smoke but smoke isn't bullet proof and a SAW just loves to spray bullets into the smoke since he knows that a medic is probably trying to revive the guy he just shot a minute ago.

This leads me to ask squadleaders to rethink their own position in the squad formation. The squadleader's survival is going to be crusual with the new RP system in 0.9 and therefore it is no more acceptable that the squadleader is the first in formation. Being the first to run around a corner in hostile area should be a rifleman's job not the squadleader's. Being the front man in the squad when running around in the forrest should also be a simple rifleman's job.

I know formations have been discussed before and it's hard to keep a tight formation in game but all I ask is that at least the squadleader as a minimun isn't the first one to charge blindly into an unknown hostile area. I know I won't be saving you if you have a full enemy squad running around you. Just because a squadleader dies it doesn't mean that the rest of us should commit suicide to be able to regroup with him at main.

I'm just saying

Yes.. I know please is spelled with an S but I can't edit the title

[rampo]

Well you should simply stop healing people in the line of fire and tell it to them.. still reviving people just might make the difference between losing or winning the battle as dying results in ticket loss.

[Indian_Clay]

I agree. It really bugs me when the SL says "follow my lead." I think a formation can be something as simple as just having a point man. Having the SL take point is unrealistic and - as you said - leads to lame-o gameplay.

I play medic more than any other position, but I don't really have that problem. I take an assessment and say if it's too risky, I tell them I can't revive or heal them at the moment or to simply give up. They don't like it: tough cookies - they'll just have to walk.

That being said, I often do do risky revives. It's just the name of the game in CQB. If you want to stay alive, it's your job to keep your squad alive (which includes shooting the OpFor ).

[Sgt. Mahi]

Well you should simply stop healing people in the line of fire and tell it to them.. still reviving people just might make the difference between losing or winning the battle as dying results in ticket loss.

That's the thing. I do tell them and sometimes people get pissed because they simply expect the medic to give it a try... If you try it will either be succesful, which will result in 0 ticket loss and then everything will be all good and jolly. But if you are unsuccesful it will result in 2 tickets loss and no more medic in the squad. You tell me which scenario is the worst?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind taking some chances but I won't risk a situation where the chance of succes is under 20 % or something like that.

[MyOdessa]

When I am a SL (which is exceedingly rare), I simply tell my squad not to give up, unless medic tells them to. I simply trust that I have a good medic in my squad, who will do his best to evaluate situation and decide if he can revive or has to abandon teammate because of the enemy presence.

[Duckmeister]

I actually have the completely opposite problem.

I want my medics to stay back until the area is clear before he revives, or, if we are just wounded and bleeding, we'll come to him, not the other way around. But instead, my medics, at the sound of "i'm hit" run out in the field of fire and get cut down before anyone can get saved, thus screwing the entire squad over, even when I told him to stay back.

[Sgt. Mahi]

I actually have the completely opposite problem.

I want my medics to stay back until the area is clear before he revives, or, if we are just wounded and bleeding, we'll come to him, not the other way around. But instead, my medics, at the sound of "i'm hit" run out in the field of fire and get cut down before anyone can get saved, thus screwing the entire squad over, even when I told him to stay back.

Yes the medic should stay behind but shouldn't that go for the squadleader as well?

[killonsight95]

negative the squad leader should be 3rd or 2nd in the line he needs to know what going on and where the enemy is not at the back shouting "whats going on!!!!!" to the guys in front of him which are highly likly etheir be unable to tell exactly whats going on and cause confusion and anti ninja caous

[DaKillerFox]

This is a great thread and I honestly think the changes in v.90 are going to dramatically change the medic's role. When I first started playing PR a few months ago, I always volunteered to be the Medic so that I could learn that position. And it was fun... for a while. Because what I noticed is that, the medic's single role is to revive and heal fallen soldiers and he cannot engage enemies simply because he has such a shitty weapon, with no scope. But the thing that irks me, is players, who knowingly go into an open area or hop on a roof knowing that there are enemy forces watching those areas. They get shot and then say, hey can I get revived? In those instances I roll my eyes, but I do honestly try to asses the situation and if I can save a SM, I will try, even if I'm getting shot at. Another thing that is annoying that hasn't been mentioned is SM's giving up too soon. Some players will get shot, go down and call for a medic, I'll try to make my way to them and then when I get to their body, they've already given up. This is usually the case because a lot of players can just spawn on a nearby rally point. With the rally changes, players will not have that luxury and I think given the choice of waiting a few extra seconds to be revived or spending the next 5 mins walking from a FOB that may or may not be nearby, they will choose to wait. Which again, makes the medic role more prestigious and desirable now. Also, with kits staying on the ground for 5 mins now, instead of 30 secs, it will be worthwhile to wait for the medic to revive you so you can get back that HAT or AR kit, which is not the case if you respawn and cannot request that kit atm. This is gonna be awesome!

On another note, it would be great if SL's didn't necessarily stick in the back of the squad, but were more cautious with their actions and didn't lead the action either. Some of you argue that it's hard to make decisions and direct the squad if you're in the back, but imagine how hard it is to direct a squad if you're dead and waiting to respawn? If a SL charges out into the action, even if he is the 2nd or 3rd man and get's shot down, the rest of the squad, if they are not that competent (and I've seen this happen) will just run around like chickens with their heads cutoff, not knowing what to do. Once the SL is down, how is he able to direct the action when he can't see or move at all?

This reminds me of a joke:

A doctor says to his patient "Which is more convenient, working out an hour a day, or being dead twenty-four hours a day?"

[Teufel Eldritch]

I actually have the completely opposite problem.

I want my medics to stay back until the area is clear before he revives, or, if we are just wounded and bleeding, we'll come to him, not the other way around. But instead, my medics, at the sound of "i'm hit" run out in the field of fire and get cut down before anyone can get saved, thus screwing the entire squad over, even when I told him to stay back.

I do sometimes run out as Medic when I shouldn't & get myself killed. I admit that however this is because I am so used to squads with impatient wounded that either demand you heal/revive them RIGHT NOW! or ppl that tap out faster than you can get over to epi them. I do sometimes cave to that pressure but if I am in a real squad, a good squad then I prefer to wait till the area is clear or have them come to me.

Don't get me started on ppl tapping out... GRRRRRRRrrrrr

[Jedimushroom]

I often have the very irritating problem that whilst I should stay back to preserve the leadership of the squad, I know for a fact that I will be much better at dealing with the enemy than the other members of my squad. I think in 0.9 I will stay back more and just learn to tolerate failure

[Sgt. Mahi]

I often have the very irritating problem that whilst I should stay back to preserve the leadership of the squad, I know for a fact that I will be much better at dealing with the enemy than the other members of my squad. I think in 0.9 I will stay back more and just learn to tolerate failure

Yup I think I know what you mean by that and I see alot of "old players", that squadlead lead the charge themselves because they often think they're better to deal with the enemies.... Which actually usually is the case but when it goes wrong it quickly turns out to be a fatal strategy for the whole squad.

[Ghost_1ll1]

i often lead squads and inform them that the medic decides who gives up.

and much to the medics horror i will take point often times, and it is because i need the intel and i know where im going, even if you give members markers, they take really bad paths get killed and provide little to no intel (i cant babysit them giving instruction on how to walk). if i die, i tell my SM's to secure the location, if they cant, o well i'll respawn and inform them where we are regrouping.

when my clanmates are on i will have one of them take point. having the SL take point sometimes is useful because it shows your SM's you arent just sending them to their deaths.

That being said, when an SM goes down, my mission changes to Secure that Location using the five minute time period if neccessary, if we cannot do it within that time, that SM has to respawn then we regroup, and i re-think the assault if i need to.

even with the .9 changes to RP's i predict the SL kit itself will be used even less, defending FOB's will be more important than a one time use rally that lasts for 60seconds; and medics even more important than ever; tactics from all parties will be less suicidal.

[sniperrocks]

"Medic running up to the front lines" problem can be traced back to vBF2, people will get used to it one day

I agree that the SL should be in the middle, thus defending front and back. Regrouping is gonna be harder once the SL is dead since there's only temp rally point :\
I think this would probably result in "save the SL no matter what"

[Yeti Pilot]

Hopefully this new rally system will make people play much more safer an tactically which will lead to much more realistic battles. At least I hope.

[MyOdessa]

I also agree with having SL in the middle, I prefer 2-3 rifleman up front, SL and AT middle, and AR and medic last so they can cover squad movement. That way medic can observe better and make choice who to revive first if at all.

[USMCMIDN]

agreed IRL my unit does ready (rifleman) team (ft leader) fire (SAW) assist (assistant SAW gunner) in our fire teams... SL, FTL, etc... should nvr go first

as for the medic/corpsman thing it is their job to never leave a man behind and to do w.e it takes to get them (in the US military this is a huge deal), yes even under serious harassing fire... theres a saying you always can tell the medics/corpsman IRL by the medals on their chest (they run out into fire all the time and get medals its a sick joke kinda thing)... now in the game obv you can leave a guy down for tkt reasons I mean its just a game you can sacrifice 1 tkt but IRL thats a brother to you who holds more significance than yeah were going to let you rot... so wen you say that medics will not run under fire to save a wounded soldier/marine re word it a bit different.... I know its extreme but I think if I was a medic or corpsman I would be kinda offended.

and as a SL it is your job to out smart the enemy so you can help your downed soldier/marine etc... Outsmart the enemy do not let him impose his will on you, thats what being a good leader does, not let the enemy make the decisions!!!

[Wh33lman]

to OP: You clearly havent gotten the hang of the medic position yet. First of all, the wounded time in PR is about 5 minutes. Thats 5 minutes for your squad to locate and eliminate the enemy, or 5 minutes to wait for your smoke to fill out and the enemy to forget exactly where they shot your buddy. Communicate with your patients. tell them "Ok, im coming in for you, when I get you up start crawling backwards" or "When I revive you, run in this direction". YOUR the medic, its YOUR decision whether or not to revive. As Clay said, if your squadmates dont like your decision, well tough cookies.

Now I agree with you on the SL's position in the formation. They should hang back, but most don't. I know when I'm a squad leader, I lead from the front. If your squad leader goes down, the squads going to be looking to you to help him. They should help you in any way they can to get their leader back. And if they don't, well then your just in a squad full of idiots.

[Herbiie]

negative the squad leader should be 3rd or 2nd in the line he needs to know what going on and where the enemy is not at the back shouting "whats going on!!!!!" to the guys in front of him which are highly likly etheir be unable to tell exactly whats going on and cause confusion and anti ninja caous

It depends - whenever I play medic, I don't stay at the back I just stay in cover, a few metres back perhaps, I think that the Squad Leader should expose himself to the fire more, but not too much.

If you think of squads as platoons and the SL as a platoon commander it works alot better, he needs to be able to assess the situation and control his squad - he shouldn't be having to worrying about small things like suppressing the enemy.

@ People saying they know where they are going, Squad members are dumb etc., split the route into a series of straight lines, place a marker at the first corner, and tell your squad to walk directly towards it, when you get there set the next. Simpels.

As for not being able to beat the enemy - just control your squad.... tell them to lay down suppressing fire, to keep firing even if they can't see the enemy and all will be good, then when you've worked out how you're going to win this you can take a more active role

[myles]

This is a great thread and I honestly think the changes in v.90 are going to dramatically change the medic's role. When I first started playing PR a few months ago, I always volunteered to be the Medic so that I could learn that position. And it was fun... for a while. Because what I noticed is that, the medic's single role is to revive and heal fallen soldiers and he cannot engage enemies simply because he has such a shitty weapon, with no scope."

Just because it has no scope does int make it shit my favourite gun is the M-16 iron sights its is really good in close range and better than acog and red at medium range on 3 burst i find as it is very acurate. i stiil think it is decent at long range sometimes. You should really try it out more it you think its bad trust me its very good.