Unbalanced weapons

[wookimonsta]

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. Yes, in direct combat, the saw beats out the rifle 9 out of 10 times. Thats why you don't seek direct combat. When I see a saw pointing at me, i don't get up and fire at it because I know that unless I am ready to hit him in the head the first time, im gonna loose.
The first poster said that PR was an eco-system. Well, in an ecosystem, when something changes, you gotta adapt.
Saying the saw is overpowered is like saying the tank in basrah is overpowered. I mean yeah, it will get a shitload of kills in the right hands, but its not invincible. Saws have the same weaknesses that tanks have, you either flank it, or you sneak up and surprise it, since both of them have a tendency to get tunnel vision and if they don't know where you are, they can't kill you.
Also, grenades are your friends against the saw

[Jackthe®ipper]

Where are the medium machine guns? Im sure it has been discussed before but I wouldn't mind seeing the m240 or a GPMG in game?

[DankE_SPB]

Where are the medium machine guns? Im sure it has been discussed before but I wouldn't mind seeing the m240 or a GPMG in game?

play for russian forces/chechs/ins

[Silly_Savage]

When you see people with m249 ending up with scores like 80 kills 1-2 deaths one must only wonder, no?.....

I assume you're referring to last nights round of Basrah?



Went 82-4 with the British Minimi.

I think the assault rifles need a bit more lovin'. Either a slight increase in accuracy or a slight decrease in the settle time needed to achieve maximum accuracy would be in order. Couple this with the new recoil, and I believe things will balance out.

[TristanYockell]

Surely you can't be serious.


There were submachine guns as well, though not as common as bolt action rifles of course.

The people attacking the vickers were armed with single shot rifles... I know they had mg's in ww1. What I mean is they were such an advantage because they were single shot rifle armed infantry running out in no mans land towards a set up MG with a bead on them.
Not to mention tactics were piss poor, and everyone was stuck in trenches afraid to move because of artillery ect. ect.

Point is, MG's are not the thunder god anymore because assualt rifles are an all around superb package of firepower, accuracy and ammo capacity, they may be superior yes, but not to the extent you see in PR.

Besides this moot anyway, the m249 is a completely different animal than a liquid cooled, tripod based 50 pound .303 caliber MG. Not the same at all.

Assault rifles are too nerf in comparison to LMG's, simple as that.

[TristanYockell]

I assume you're referring to last nights round of Basrah?



Went 82-4 with the British Minimi.

Yes thats the one. I knew it was something like that, good job by the way!.

And I agree with your suggestions.

[A.Wickens]

I don't usually post in these forums but the time has come lol. The uber-pwn status of the LMG's is totally unbalancing PR at the moment . Imo opinion the majority of people saying they aren't are those that are now miraculously racking up K/D's they could never have got close to with good tactics and a standard rifle.

I have been playing PR for a long time now and do know the difference between effective use of cover and running around in the open, I know how to flank and use supperession. None of the factors nor the absence of them excuse the ridiculous gamepplay that is resulting due to the wide gulf in the depiction of the rifle vs the LMG. We seem to be all about 'realistically' (matter of opinion) portraying the SAW's supreme dominance of the battlefield (matter of opinon, still only a 5.56 round) and yet full of reasons why the deviation system should hamper the ordinary rifleman.

At present I am faced with SAW after SAW most rounds when playing against US teams. Their supernatural ability to pogo behind cover yet put long bursts on target at 400M. The somewhat Superman-like ability of LMG wielders to either circle strafe or strafe sideways whilst in deployed mode, wiping out players that have positioned themselves reasonably well and scoped in first. Who isn't tempted to slam their head against the desk yet again when after scoping in on an LMG facing away from you after letting your deviation settle, you fire a single aimed shot and miss (for no obvious reason), only for Rambo to do a 180 degree prone and headshot you in the first 2 rounds of the stream of lazors he sends your way.

The problem is that the LMG's own all at close range due to the rate of fire, pandering to the lone Rambo. They are effectively auto-snipers at mid to long range with deviation penalties apparently having little effect. Furthermore, the jack in the box phenomenom turns them into deployable mini gun turrets. Couple that with the very poor choice of 2 man requestable kits and you now have gameplay and balance that resembles MW2 at times, even on the best servers.

I play on the same server most of the time and know who plays well generaly, I see the same players picking up this kit because of the easy kills it provides, players that do no where near as well with the standard rifle. Doesn't that speak volumes.

I am sure you have heard these arguments before but on the eve of 0.9, when PR seems to be getting so much right, I am frankly astounded that this ridiculous balance issue exists and sincerely hope it will be addressed properly in the near future. As I say you may have heard this all before as Devs, there's a clue there.

I am no coder and tip my hat to the fantastic work all the Dev's do in making this the best game in town, period. I am therefore struggling to offer any real solution as regards the actual nuts and bolts of the game code etc. Perhaps it could be considered to remove the ability to fire deployed unless you are, well actually deployed on the floor. I understand the free standing deployed mode was implemented to represent resting the bipod on a wall or some sort of cover, however it has not panned out well.

Perhaps some will say you can't nerf the LMG, it's supposed to be that powerful. I would argue that actually, no it's not. Not so disporportionately powerful compared to standard rifles. If we want to encourage the use of LMG's to support proper suppression, fire and manouevre tactics then only being able to fire in prone deployed mode would work fine.
After all the advantage the M4, for example, has over a PKM, SAW etc is its size and the speed at which the operator can shoulder the weapon or at least bring it to the ready position. This is entirely negated at the moment, where's the realism there?

Summing up, even if the end result is the LMG is toned down and slightly nerfed, is that such a disaster, compared to the nerfed experience anyone not toting a 'noob cannon' sometimes ends up with when playing. How many LMG's in a team in 0.9, in view of the 4 amn requestable kits? How many standard infantrymen?

Please consider addressing this issue.

[Silly_Savage]

Just wait for v0.9 and then come to a consensus.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[myles]

just get the assault rifles in order and ill be fine but the AKs and the G3 are good but the others have way too much recoil.

[Zimmer]

0.9 is incoming so no need to discuss things rigth now as 90% of the community dont have a clue whats coming and how it will play.

[Lan]

All guns are different in terms of accuracy and rate of fire etc etc etc so in reality it would be unbalanced in that area, its about the tactics and teamwork that win you that particular firefight not the weapons. Anyway everything in the game has to be unbalanced because in rl the insurgents dont have a tank but they do have the means to take it out i think you pretty much see my point so ill stop nattering on.

[bosco_]

-

The fact that you can only obtain a SAW with 4 or more players in your squad in 0.9 should thin out their ranks.

[motherdear]

the total recoil reduction (even if you fire in . was not really meant to be there. i do not believe that any coders would (with intention) code the saw to become more and more accurate, even though it fires.
if i remember correctly we are removin the ability for it to become more and more accurate even though you fire, we are making new recoil animations, we are making new deviation tweaks to allow more fluid cqb combat for the rifles (deviation changes depending on distance of movement with wasd keys)
i don't think that we are going to have the same situation in .9
that said i haven't had a game of 64 people in 0.9 yet so i can't tell about the effects yet. therefore i suggest that you guys stop arguing over this and wait for .9 because there really is no use arguing about something that is going to be changed anyway. and as long as we don't know the full extent of these changes we shouldn't be talking about them (especially not this close to release where nothing like this is getting changed anyway)

[Herbiie]

(even if you fire in .

:O

What's this?

A special "Cool Dude" Release?

[Cassius]

I hope the saw does not get even more inaccurate undeployed . Yes at ranges up to 50m it is a beast and if you fire single shots it can compete with an assault rifle, but all factions have this beast.

A trained soldier can fire it with reasonable accuracy from the shoulder. Enough with the whining already.

[HAAN4]

SAW to my is now balaced, no more BF2142 recoil sistem,

and evem tough SAW have very litle recoil for a LMG weopow, it still prety hard shoot to many shoots, i have see lots of vidios, and regular soldirs fire MAX 7 shoots whicht good acurracy, after the 10 shoot things become really uncaracy.

of course there has great guys, how can shoot alot alot of magazines, but speaking about regular soldirs, that is what they up to, 7 shoots acuracy, after 10 shoot it go complety unacuracy.

still. SAW is the best LMG in world, and in PR 2, because other LMG kits, shoot only up 3 shoots really acuracy, i thick it is not unbalced. has it is.

[HAAN4]

But really i belive the acurracy, rate of fire and all bla bla bla of mi mi mi is Not balaced, but real. and Project reality is Porject reality, and not project balaced.

so, if you what to balace things, considery put more weakness in LMG, it have the mobility of a Assault rifle. i assume it, maybe puting Slow speed in LMG to move the weopow to diferent points is real, or has well puting a arc of fire on deployend LMG will also make great things to our mod balace has real, Reality

[=XE=Grimm]

I agree with some of the statements. I've been killed by those unbelievably accurate SAW gunners on more than one occasion while playing as a marksman or a simple rifleman.

If I run into them withing 100-150 minutes (cqc on urban maps) I can understand their advantage. I can also understand if he sees me before I see him. But for a SAW gunner to land shoots and kill me over 300-500 meters on a wide open terrain (desert maps) while I'm the one on the hill with a marksman kit, that's just ridiculous. I don't mean to brag or anything like that, but I am one hell of a marksman/sniper. But a SAW gunner with a scope is like a good marksman with a magazine ten times the size of mine and no deviation or time-to-zero-in between his rounds.

I don't mind those weapons being deadly in close quarter situations or the tool to suppress on long distances, their purpose is to provide that overwhelming fire power. But to be picked off by a SAW gunner on ridiculously long distances because I have to wait for 3-5 seconds before I shoot my second round because my first round didn't go where I aimed it to go, that's far from realism. And it's not a statement against the LMG kit.

That being said, I don't believe SAW is the problem as much as I believe the accuracy of the rest of the weapons is. True, you get used to the deviation and the time it takes to shoot where you actually want to shoot. It's just the time it takes for every non-deployable weapon to zero in for the first and not to mention the following shoot kills the awareness part of the game. Meaning, if I see a guy before he sees me, I still have to be exposed and aim for a given amount of time to make sure my bullet goes where I want it to go. During that time he spots me and the element of surprise goes out to window.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game. But certain situations are a buzz kill and counter the word "reality" in the name of the mod. But despite that, it is still the closest thing we'll get to a realism based tac shooter. Hope 0.9 fixes some of these things.

[Charliesierra-RCR]

has anyone here ever fired a SAW or a C9 in real life? if so, you would know about the accuracy in it at 400-500m only thing the game doesnt have is wind to adjust your fire... i've been able to land an entire box of ammo on a target from 300m, maybe the marksman just needs to be smarter and not get spotted by the gunners?

[Dev1200]

Auto rifleman kits should have more recoil, imo. This way you can't full auto for extended periods of time at any distance. Also, make them have more deviation per shot, like every other weapon in PR. If you scope (any stance) with the m249, go full auto and try to hit a target at 100m. The maximum deviation is only about 1m~ or under