v0.9 Rally System = Loving It

[rushn]

How about making rallies that have a limit you can place rallies in tighter spots which made it fun to attack from different directions and go out and try to find one

rallies made the game really fun because you had longer firefights

[Yeti Pilot]

You're seriously going to use this argument? Real life? In real life you don't have 32 players trying to find caches in a populated urban center. There should be a replication of the quantity of troops. I feel like more respawns and quicker deployment to the action is REALISTIC, it suggests that there are many troops on the ground as reserves.

32 players is hard coded for one team sorry, the respawn system "simulates" more than 32 players on the battlefield. The overall problem with the old rally system was it made winning firefight pointless and squads just kinda went about their own thing.

We essentially have a paintball game now, where people have to return to their home-base to go back out again. It doesn't make sense in modern combat.

Neither does a magical pile of rucksacks that you magically spawn on.

Trying to push realism on a game is absurd. As I said before, if you want realism, you should force the soldiers to defecate and eat as they patrol the maps.

I have said before this is project Reality not Project lets remake battlefield 2.

Everyone that I have spoken to in game is NOT a fan of the new rally system.

They'll get over it or they will leave. Its that simple.

[USA-Forever932]

I happen to enjoy the new rally system on everymap except for Yamalia. Why not Yamalia? Because Yamalia is so open that it's hard to really hide your firebases in any place that allows them to stay secure for a decent amount of time. I really enjoy them on other maps like Silent Eagle. Taking a flag requires a team to construct these bases in large numbers. I've taken to simply thinking of firebases like rally points and just placing them where ever I go so that my team can follow in my squad's footsteps. Sometimes I will have choppers fly my squad around to multiple places just to build firebases on different flanks before an attack.

To support your team, you need support from your team. Logi trucks and choppers play a huge role now.

[Regan]

Teek - said "Grow up and get over it, all the good players have."

Well judging by that comment makes me think you havn't actually grown up yourself. Telling someone they are not grown up because they do not agree with your opinion speaks volumes. This is a forum where people should be allowed to express there opinions without people like you putting them down. Now, if we want to start acting all grown up and all then lets stop been rude to others shall we.

[offmason]

32 players is hard coded for one team sorry, the respawn system "simulates" more than 32 players on the battlefield. The overall problem with the old rally system was it made winning firefight pointless and squads just kinda went about their own thing.

Neither does a magical pile of rucksacks that you magically spawn on.

I have said before this is project Reality not Project lets remake battlefield 2.

They'll get over it or they will leave. Its that simple.

The current respawn system simulates more than 32 players? In what sense? That players that die have to walk for most of the duration of the map before they see combat again? What are you talking about? You made a conclusory statement without backing up your point.

As far as the insurgency/cache maps are concerned, the defensive posture (upper-hand) of the insurgents must be counter-balanced by overwhelming force. On the other hand, if this is a pure insurgency, for every one insurgent you kill 5 should spring up. The rallies forced squads to tweak their tactics and change their strategy to fit the situation on the ground. Now, before you get back to the "situation" on the ground, you may very well find that there is no situation anymore.

Broken advances are unrealistic and at the same time, it is not fun -- this is a game at its core.

No, what actually may happen is that if enough people are sore about this -- it'll kill the community -- and you sir can play by yourself. We'll then rename the game to Project Yeti Pilot because it will just be you.

A magical rucksack in comparison is a magical sandbag nest? Are you serious?

I would advocate for a better balance between FOB's and rallies. As it stands right now, there are now rallies as far as I am concerned. Tinker with the time a bit.

It was a good try, now change it back.

[Ssential]

Just ... don't ... jump the gun on this. I like it so far since it created some large team vs. team firefights.

BUT it sucks hard when the team fails. You're just going to waste 2h of your well deserved evening. So if it works then it's great. If not, it sucks obviously.

I suggest try getting used to it. Make yourself a real picture of it and THEN decide. I hope People will get used to it and start to build AND defend their firebases. It's always the same when things are getting changed. Everyone is thinking of what is lost but not of what is won with the change.

[RedAlertSF]

Before 0.9 was released I thought this change would just destroy the gameplay completely. After a few rounds my opinion was exactly the same. However, after that I got used to it; it doesn't bother me at all, if logistics are running well.

[Drav]

Ye logistics and a commander are key now. If you have both then I dont even notice the rps are gone, and hitching a lift is as easy as relaying a msg to the commander. However in a bad round it is admittedly more frustrating than before, and i have some sympathy with those ppl saying that casual players suffer.


All those people saying grow up because ppl dont like the new system, well, grow up. The reason forums are interesting is because people have different opinions. As long as ppl are respectful and polite I have no problem with them saying they dont like the changes, and certainly wouldnt accuse them of being less mature than someone who did like them.

By all means give your opinion here but respect other peoples too......As for me, I havent played enough to form an opinion yet, and I think over the next few weeks the play will alter as everyone get used to how to play it properly.

[space]

I had doubts about it as my experiences on the 0.8d servers weren't great, but so far its been fine and surprisingly I've hardly noticed the change.

I think one thing that might need tweaking is the ticket count on some maps. Due to people being more careful, some maps now take several hours which isn't already what everyone is looking for. It would be good to have a "low ticket" layer like the one on Yamalia, so that server admins can have a little more control over the length of rounds.

[=XE=Grimm]

I actually grew to like it in the rare few maps I could play. I've witnessed only one time our SL laid down a rally point and that was for a guy that got killed while the rest of the squad already spawned and was half way down the map. But I have yet to witness defending a FOB that's not placed directly on a current objective.

[Tim270]

THEN PATROL.

The way Squads move around in game is stupid - PLAN a route, and move through it.

Defending? patrol the Perimeter. Attacking? Aggressively Patrol the surrounding terrain to cut them off, then move in take them out & get supplies.

Apart from the supplies part that's how real soldiers and real armies work - it's all about patrols. So patrol, end up where you started (at a FireBase) and you'll be fine *face palm*

This has nothing to do with tactics, regardless if a squad is split up or not for whatever reason, essentially being limited to 1 rally per-life can get quite frustrating and from what I saw in the Rally test servers squads became more spread out...

Like I said, the system as a whole is great, my only problem is 're-arming' rallies as Lets be honest Its quite unlikely you are going to survive every contact and be able to circle back to supplies rearm and repeat.

[joethepro36]

Imo the best parts of the rallies change is that it puts the focus on firebases, slow and secure advancing and more focus on the team working together as opposed to individual units.

Now it is far more important for 2 squads to cover each other and move as one. In the last version there was still a lot of "Oh look we're the only squad doing anything".

[Zimmer]

The current respawn system simulates more than 32 players? In what sense? That players that die have to walk for most of the duration of the map before they see combat again? What are you talking about? You made a conclusory statement without backing up your point.

If you dont like walking you:
1. Tries to make FOBS near as possible.
2. Dont die.
Pros:
By killing someone it does mean he will be out of the game for several minutes 5-10 minutes that means killing someone and taking objectives actually works, since FOBS behind enemy lines usually dont work.
If your team dont cooperate your screwed and that is how it should be.
Cons:
If your team sucks your screwed even how good your at inf or armor, the team has to work together if you want to dominate.


As far as the insurgency/cache maps are concerned, the defensive posture (upper-hand) of the insurgents must be counter-balanced by overwhelming force. On the other hand, if this is a pure insurgency, for every one insurgent you kill 5 should spring up. The rallies forced squads to tweak their tactics and change their strategy to fit the situation on the ground. Now, before you get back to the "situation" on the ground, you may very well find that there is no situation anymore.

And thats how it should be.

Broken advances are unrealistic and at the same time, it is not fun -- this is a game at its core.

If you dont think its fun find another game nobody is actually forcing you to play PR. As many has said before if you cant cope with the changes its your fault not the game. And I have seen team related advances lately before it was squad advance every squad for themself, now that your squad needs to rely on others the atmosphere to other squads are much better.

No, what actually may happen is that if enough people are sore about this -- it'll kill the community -- and you sir can play by yourself. We'll then rename the game to Project Yeti Pilot because it will just be you.

No its just a small core that are sore about this and the PR community have lived through worse changes then this as (SL spawning and APC spawning where more debated then this)

A magical rucksack in comparison is a magical sandbag nest? Are you serious?

A FOB is a actual thing its a defense position not a teleporter of people from a house, see it as forwarded positions that are more valuable then the flags. The flags dont have ammo a FOB will most likely have ammo and heay weapons such as AT; AA, and 50's a flag have none, the flags dont mean much its there to centralize the fighting nothing more. If you kill all FOBS to the enemy team they are screwed in AAS before people could just set up a rally in a ditch and whoops your advance was nothing but a waste of tickets since a squad stabbed you from behind where you should be safe.

I would advocate for a better balance between FOB's and rallies. As it stands right now, there are now rallies as far as I am concerned. Tinker with the time a bit.

The Fobs and Rallies are good as it is, if you loose a couple of men you can still call them in with the Rally but you cant rush from such a position.

It was a good try, now change it back.

Will not happen just because a small group of people want the rally points back, you could also have spoken when the changes where tested, but it was not really much against the changes then.

The mantra to the PR team is that they want to make a game they like not what someone who cant live without the RP's want.

Answers in bold.


Either way the community have had little to say with the changes done in PR since its beginning, but the community could say their thing about this in 0.87 on special servers and this was the best thing to do.

As have been said with SL spawning and APC spawning that was rage people said that this would kill of the community for 2-3 years ago (guess what there has never been more PR players and then you had maybe 2 or 3 servers that was full at a normal day).
All the people complaining then got as answer that it was the DEVS who ruled the ship not the passengers.

I am 99% positive this change will stay maybe it gets a little tweaked like what Tim is proposing but nothing more, PR is made by and in the manner the devs want it to be not the community.

If you cant live with it make your own mod with what you want to see.

[rushn]

It sucks without a comander and few people play comander =

[Teek]

Teek - said "Grow up and get over it, all the good players have."

Well judging by that comment you have made makes me think you havn't actually grown up yourself. Telling someone they are not grow up because they do not agree with your opinion speaks volumes. This is a forum where people should be allowed to express there opinions without people like you putting them down. Now, if we want to start acting all grown up and all then lets stop been rude to others shall we.

My opinion is your comments in this thread is that you have played less than one day of the new version, how can you have built a complete, comprehensive and proper opinion on how the new system works?

These changes have been in the game for a while now as part of the D beta, and it has been proven that the system works and promotes teamwork for those that can adapt to it. Those who do not adapt and grow with the mod will be left behind. By "left behind" I mean they will frustrated their old method of squad work and rushing gets thwarted by Superior strategy and team work.

if we are to talk about the opinions you raised in this thread, they are thread-bare, "medics in other squads don't heal you" and "no one builds fire bases""the team needs to be thinking alike". my opinion when reading that, is its a complaint and not necessarily based on fact.

One: where is your squads medic? sounds like your squad needs one.

Two: how come your squad does not build a Fire base instead of using the outdated tactic of running towards the enemy and plopping a Rally point before contact?

Three: the team thinking together is essential to effective teamwork, and thats what the mod wants to promote, therefore, you do agree that the system is working, putting more emphasis on team work and less on squad work.

Fix those issues in your mindset and you will fix your rounds. If you see a lack of squad leaders, you could step up to the plate and lead a squad, you have the power to fix the problem.

I will also admit that my tone in the last post was not as I would have liked, but it was induced by the shouting and caps lock use in xNOON's sensationalistic posts.

[offmason]

If you dont like walking you:
1. Tries to make FOBS near as possible.
This is not up to me and not even up to a commander most of the time. Likely because it is rare to have a commander.
2. Dont die.
Don't die? That is basically the equivalent of saying, "don't play." If you meet your enemy, there is a substantial chance that you will get killed... sometimes regardless of your cautionary advance. But no matter what, you are very likely to walk for years just to get back to the action.


Pros:
By killing someone it does mean he will be out of the game for several minutes 5-10 minutes that means killing someone and taking objectives actually works, since FOBS behind enemy lines usually dont work.
It worked with rallies as well, especially for insurgent maps where they were not able to place rallies (which I disagree with). The overwhelming force associated with rally spawning infantry either resulted in the total elimination of one side, or forced a side to re-think their approach and strategy.

And thats how it should be.
Really? Good argument. Having to start from square one is not exactly the definition of overwhelming force, the staple of modern operations.

Cons:
If your team sucks your screwed even how good your at inf or armor, the team has to work together if you want to dominate.
My issue is NOT about the whole team cooperating. With a solid commander and willing players, the WHOLE team would cooperate even when the game play was not FOB-centric. This is about being able to effectively operate as a squad, instead of being forced to separate from those squad members that are alive and those that are not. Squad members that die are forced to start at square one, separating the unity of the each building block of the team, the squads.

If you dont think its fun find another game nobody is actually forcing you to play PR. As many has said before if you cant cope with the changes its your fault not the game. And I have seen team related advances lately before it was squad advance every squad for themself, now that your squad needs to rely on others the atmosphere to other squads are much better.
No one is forcing me to play PR. I am simply arguing that my way is the better way. Don't use the childish argument that I should simply leave because it is free and all that nonsense. You have seen team based advances? That's great. I do not see anymore team work than I saw before the change, just more walking and tedious advances.

No its just a small core that are sore about this and the PR community have lived through worse changes then this as (SL spawning and APC spawning where more debated then this)

A small core? In every server and every squad I have played with in the last two days, people have not been fond of the rally changes. I do not know what you're basing your numbers on.

A FOB is a actual thing its a defense position not a teleporter of people from a house, see it as forwarded positions that are more valuable then the flags. The flags dont have ammo a FOB will most likely have ammo and heay weapons such as AT; AA, and 50's a flag have none, the flags dont mean much its there to centralize the fighting nothing more. If you kill all FOBS to the enemy team they are screwed in AAS before people could just set up a rally in a ditch and whoops your advance was nothing but a waste of tickets since a squad stabbed you from behind where you should be safe.


I look at the rally as being a replication of large real-world infantry quantity. You kill a couple of soldiers and you destroy a whole advance in a CITY!? That is NOT realistic. The rally creates the impression that there is a substantial force in every squad. Due to the fact that the numbers are limited to 64 players, you need to create such a fictitious impression of infantry quantity, especially for city and large sub-urban maps.

The Fobs and Rallies are good as it is, if you loose a couple of men you can still call them in with the Rally but you cant rush from such a position.

The rally is basically non-existent. It is disingenuous to say that the rally is anywhere near as effective as it was. It is a one time use type of spawn. You use it once and then what? Nothing. Not sure why the dev's decided to even have it available anymore, as it is essentially pointless now.

Will not happen just because a small group of people want the rally points back, you could also have spoken when the changes where tested, but it was not really much against the changes then.
When the changes were tested? I'm not a beta-tester. Just because the dev's decided to drastically change game play based on the approval of a few testers, doesn't make the change correct. I did not waive my ability to have an opinion just because I did not vote, that's a rather weak argument.

The mantra to the PR team is that they want to make a game they like not what someone who cant live without the RP's want.
Please explain how that supports your argument that FOB-centric game play is better, I know what I want. If the dev's acknowledge or do not acknowledge my opinion, it makes no difference to me. The point is. I have an opinion.

BOLDED RESPONSE

[KEIOS]

I absolutely hate the new Rally System. It totally takes out the dynamic of the game and leads to frustrating situations, where nobody built an FOB and you have to walk a kilometer just to get shot, when you got there and have to walk again. Sure this System could work, if there would be enough FOBs around, but for example on a round of Iron Ridge today, there was no Supply Truck, which made it useless to play it, since the former great gameplay of 0.8 turned into a "walk simulator" in 0.9. The Devs shouldn´t have changed it!

I do want the old rally system back!

[offmason]

KEIOS, I agree with you. You have my seal of approval.

Your credentials speak for themselves. You are a supporting member and a server administrator.

[Regan]

I am all for giving this game a good test before I look somewhere else, but tonight I had the same experience as last night. I just feel that every time the squad leaders "master plan" all goes wrong, it’s then he decides to leave the squad. I am yet to play a game were the squad leader hasn’t left when all of his players are dying around him, then spawning miles away from the rest of the squad.

Last night it was 4 squad leaders in the space of 30minutes. Tonight it was 3 squad leaders in the space of 1 hour.

My other gripe about the "game" is this, at some point we lost a flag behind use and the amount of squads asking for a pickup became a joke. Nobody wanted to run the seven hundred meters or so anymore, hell I know I didn’t after spending most of the game running about already. The chopper pilot didn’t know what the hell to do because he had that many squads asking for a pick up. It all ended up just been a total shambles and a free for all.

I saw a post in here that one guy said he liked it because it made him think twice about moving knowing he might be shot. Well it makes me think like twenty times before I move now lol. Because I just know there is someone camped out in that thick grass "all game" waiting for anything that moves. Now that might be like real life to some people, but it makes for one boring experience in my opinion.

I first played this game two three patches ago and loved eveything about it. Now the change in game play makes it a new game that I cannot say I like. Very sad to know that I may never see a game like the last PR now

[manligheten]

It worked with rallies as well, especially for insurgent maps where they were not able to place rallies (which I disagree with). The overwhelming force associated with rally spawning infantry either resulted in the total elimination of one side, or forced a side to re-think their approach and strategy.
...
My issue is NOT about the whole team cooperating. With a solid commander and willing players, the WHOLE team would cooperate even when the game play was not FOB-centric. This is about being able to effectively operate as a squad, instead of being forced to separate from those squad members that are alive and those that are not. Squad members that die are forced to start at square one, separating the unity of the each building block of the team, the squads.

In pre 0.9 the insurgents didn't have rallypoint, and "squadwork" in ins team has always been quite dull. The rp has essentially been the thing that made squadwork worth it. Now, a good tactic is to spawn at a FOB, get your hands of a LMG etc and lay and camp somewhere and let the kill count sky rocket. As the enemys spawn at the same FOB all of them and come from the same general direction, it's quite rewarding.
When advancing on a map I don't think being a squad necessarily lower the risk of you dying. You are easier to spot and become a easy target for a roof top LMG.

It is all about the LMGs. The spawnable LMGs made the core infantry 6-man squad weak.
Now with the removal of RPs, the core infantry squads are weaker than ever, being easy targets for hungry LMGs or armour.

EDIT:
Excluding the removal of RPs 0.9 is a VAST improvment. I don't get it.