v0.9 Rally System = Loving It

[Regan]

This isnt Delta Seal Force 1337 here, in conventional warfare you dont pop out of a tunnel inside the enemy's base, you set up a FB near it using you established supply route and logistical support, then attack it. this is one of the reasons why it was removed in the first place

Why are you so struck on whats real lol? This is a game and one that should be fun, not tedious. If we are talking real lets just get a map with a load of planes on and just bomb the taliban shall we? I am sure I would have much more fun been a pilot in that map then I do now.

Seriously, get over whats real and what isn't lol. This game comes nothing close to what war is really like. And I should know as I have friends fighting in afghanistan as I type.

[offmason]

Again, well said Regan. We should also have toilets, because our soldiers need to take a dump once in a while.

[hiberNative]

the hideouts are substantially closer to the caches and they are already built

what are you talking about? you deploy a hideout like you deploy a firebase (but without the luxury of having machine-gun nests and similar).

if you think those hideouts have been there since the round started, then no, someone actually took time and built those while you were chugging molotovs at apcs.

[Tartantyco]

We're not hiding on some uber-secret servers you know. Reality Teamwork(Currently "RT Mumble"), Tactical Gamer, and more, they're right up there on your server list, just join.The only difference between those and other servers is simply that squads try to communicate with each other to accomplish an objective. All people have to do is communicate, via text, via a commander, via TS, via mumble. That is all that has to happen. If people on a server aren't communicating then obviously you're going to have issues, but in case you didn't notice this mod is all about teamwork, it isn't meant to reward people for running around on their own just trying to kill stuff, which is why you get penalized for that behavior.

What do you actually expect? That you can just run straight into enemy fire and then just respawn 50m away? The battle, the gameplay, it relies on the team, not just individual squads, and rally points promote squad centric behavior, which is not conducive to team behavior, which wins battles.

If your team doesn't cooperate, build FOBs, communicate with each other, perform the necessary tasks for you to advance, then you should walk 2000m to your objective, because running around playing Rambo doesn't win ****. It's as simple as that.

[offmason]

So hiberNative, there is no more than one spawn point for available for insurgents on the map at the beginning? At least that takes care of the need for quick transportation to cache locations.

We're not hiding on some uber-secret servers you know. Reality Teamwork(Currently "RT Mumble"), Tactical Gamer, and more, they're right up there on your server list, just join.The only difference between those and other servers is simply that squads try to communicate with each other to accomplish an objective. All people have to do is communicate, via text, via a commander, via TS, via mumble. That is all that has to happen. If people on a server aren't communicating then obviously you're going to have issues, but in case you didn't notice this mod is all about teamwork, it isn't meant to reward people for running around on their own just trying to kill stuff, which is why you get penalized for that behavior.
Don't worry I noticed this is about teamwork, unfortunately it is very rare that a whole team is capable of cooperating. Although it does happen, it is not enough to warrant this forced system of cooperation that will ultimately fail. Teamwork was a possibility at the squad level -- at the team level, it is very remote.


What do you actually expect? That you can just run straight into enemy fire and then just respawn 50m away? The battle, the gameplay, it relies on the team, not just individual squads, and rally points promote squad centric behavior, which is not conducive to team behavior, which wins battles.
If you have a cooperating team. Either the rally point or the FOB system would work. FOB development came naturally in .8; unfortunately, it is very rare to have a cooperating team. It is far more likely to have a cooperating squad. I have not yet seen any signs that FOB-centric game play has improved whole team cooperation - just frustration at FOB raping.

If your team doesn't cooperate, build FOBs, communicate with each other, perform the necessary tasks for you to advance, then you should walk 2000m to your objective, because running around playing Rambo doesn't win ****. It's as simple as that.
We would do that during .8 anyway. .9 just destroys the squad.

[Teek]

both offmason have regan have pulled out the Strawman because they have reached a point where their words have no merit

[Tartantyco]

Why are you so struck on whats real lol?

Yeah, why can't we take 100 bullet hits, have jet packs strapped to our backs, and fight invading space aliens? Screw this whole Project Reality nonsense, this mod is now about a Seven Dwarves vs. Aliens mashup.

I think this mod might not be what you guys are looking for. If you want constant firefights and gameplay that you can just jump straight into and leave after 10-15 minutes then there are plenty of alternatives for you.

[Regan]

We're not hiding on some uber-secret servers you know. Reality Teamwork(Currently "RT Mumble"), Tactical Gamer, and more, they're right up there on your server list, just join.The only difference between those and other servers is simply that squads try to communicate with each other to accomplish an objective..

Since you have only mentioned the servers that ran the beta, I will take it that you are hiding out on these servers. Would you care to mention all the other servers with team play that didn't join in the beta?

[hiberNative]

So, there is no more than one spawn point for insurgents on the map at the beginning?

but those are spawn points, not hideouts.

[Tartantyco]

Ok offmason, it's obvious that you're just going to put your hands over your ears, close your eyes, and go "lalalalalala", so fine, you can keep whining. I know you'll keep playing PR though, because eventually it will dawn on you.

Meanwhile, get PRMumble(Or don't, it'll be proof enough regardless), join the Reality Teamwork server("RT Mumble") and see for yourself what I've been talking about. I dare you.

[V-Nessa]

If your team doesn't cooperate, build FOBs, communicate with each other, perform the necessary tasks for you to advance, then you should walk 2000m to your objective, because running around playing Rambo doesn't win ****. It's as simple as that.

The destroyable rallys in 087 was not like playing "rambo". It was a good mixture of Teamplay & Squadplay. Today, you have just Teamplay. A "Dream"-Teamplay which does not exist on the most servers and in every round.
The Squadplay is destroyed now. You does not really need to create a squad. why? All can spawn without any leader on a FB or in the base and walk alone. All players can/will or must go their own way. If they are in a squad or not makes no difference. They walk alone, with or without squad.

[Regan]

Yeah, why can't we take 100 bullet hits, have jet packs strapped to our backs, and fight invading space aliens? Screw this whole Project Reality nonsense, this mod is now about a Seven Dwarves vs. Aliens mashup.

No need to get silly now, but I am struck on the idea of Seven Dwarves vs. Aliens mashup. As long as the Dwarves have the same height advantage as the aliens I don't have a problem.

[Tartantyco]

Since you have mentioned the servers that ran the beta, I will take it that you are hiding out on these servers. Would you care to mention all the other servers with team play that didn't join in the beta?

Reality Teamwork did not, there's UKWF, 10th Community(Or did they run the beta? Can't remember), Tactics & Teamwork, Skyttegrav, some of the Virginia servers are good from time to time, as are the Hardcore servers. I mostly stick to RT and TG though because they use Mumble extensively.

[offmason]

I agree with Regan and V-Nessa - the squad is essentially dead. The squad simply walks together, until a few have to respawn back a distant FOB or main.

but those are spawn points, not hideouts.

My apologies for the error. The point is. They are spawn points, allowing them to quickly build hideouts in those designated areas. That is essentially what my point was anyway. Of course the hideout is a more permanent spawn, but nonetheless there are already several spawn points available for the insurgents to quickly utilize and from which reserves can be quickly dispensed.

Teek, please do explain what straw-man argument we are utilizing. I can tell you that tartantyco is arguing via the flawed mode of exaggeration and argumentum ad hominem.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

It would be nice if there were more servers other than RT Mumble and TG that had constant teamwork between squads and always had a commander.
People always say " Go to *blank* server, they always have good teamwork there."
The objective should be to have all servers with good teamwork, but I guess that's easier said than done. But there's not a whole lot Reality Teamwork and Tactical Gamer are doing differently that makes their servers always brimming with 64/64 players.

I guess this is a different topic, though. Just my 50 cents on what you guys seem to be discussing.
And by the way, I think the new Rally Point system works quite well. Insurgency maps can be somewhat annoying, but the lack of rally points overall decreases the constant action and makes it a lot more exciting when you eventually do get into a firefight.

[Tartantyco]

The destroyable rallys in 087 was not like playing "rambo". It was a good mixture of Teamplay & Squadplay. Today, you have just Teamplay. A "Dream"-Teamplay which you not find on the most public servers and every round.
The Squadplay is destroyed now. You does not really need to create a squad. why? All can spawn without any leader on a FB or in the base and walk alone. All players can/will or must go their own way. If they are in a squad or not makes no difference. They walk alone, with or without squad.

You know, that would be a great post is it had any relevance to the actual situation. Sadly though, it doesn't. And the reason why you don't find any "dream teamplay" is because you play with people who have exactly the same attitude as you do.

Now, keep arguing, stop playing the mod, or adapt to 0.9, I really don't care.

[hiberNative]

The Squadplay is destroyed now.

in your opinion.

You do not really need to create a squad. why? All can spawn without any leader on a FB or in the base and walk alone.

what if when your precious rally gets overrun, and you get killed. oh, you realize the fb is down too because everyone depended on rally points?
with the fb, you have have one spawn point in the area to think about, and the whole team can spawn on it. that isn't the case with the selfish rally point, the rally point which made you neglect the firebase in the first place... i hope you at least see my/our point?

All players can/will or must go their own way. If they are in a squad or not makes no difference. They walk alone, with or without squad.

if my squad member "walks alone", and "his own way" because he has some modern warfare 2 action erection, i'm kicking him from the squad.

[GunSpectre]

Battleground Europe had an update which caused a similar controversy, only people were complaining because it was too easy to get into combat and there wasn't enough walking. I just find that interesting.

Ontopic, I've been playing the new version for over 10 hours now, and my initial impressions mirrored those of the people who want the old system back. Everybody on the server played 0.9 without reading up on the new system and thus the game was tedious and disorganized. Though, I continued playing since PR is the best MP game out there, new system or not. What I noticed in the next few hours of play was that people adapted to the current system extremely well. Rush tactics were toned down, FB's were set up across the map early in the game, medics were EVERYWHERE, transport vehicles were being utilized far more frequently and communication with the commander drastically increased.

I had some pretty epic battles which were due to the new RS, so my initial impressions were way off. I'm not sure which system I like more, I'd have a huge amount of fun with both of them, but given enough time I'm sure the current system will sink in and help create scenarios which would otherwise have been impossible.

[V-Nessa]

if my squad member "walks alone", and "his own way" because he has some modern warfare 2 action erection, i'm kicking him from the squad.

Really? Great gameplay in 0.9! If your squadmember goes down in 0.9 and have no chance to respawn on your non existend rally or the FB or whatever, you will kicking him out of the squad? I don´t think that you have understand what I mean. With the new rally system, the sqadmembers are required to walk alone because they have a smaller chance to come back to you! And you will kick him out. Great Idea.

This is a confirmation for me, that this new system sux.

(in 087 i kicked all out which does not had a squadplay/walk alone/or make any rambo action. But that´s not what i mean with "walking alone")

[Regan]

It would be nice if there were more servers other than RT Mumble and TG that had constant teamwork between squads and always had a commander.
People always say " Go to *blank* server, they always have good teamwork there."
The objective should be to have all servers with good teamwork, but I guess that's easier said than done. But there's not a whole lot Reality Teamwork and Tactical Gamer are doing differently that makes their servers always brimming with 64/64 players.

I guess this is a different topic, though. Just my 50 cents on what you guys seem to be discussing.
And by the way, I think the new Rally Point system works quite well. Insurgency maps can be somewhat annoying, but the lack of rally points overall decreases the constant action and makes it a lot more exciting when you eventually do get into a firefight.

I am just so disappointed in this patch it's unreal. This game has gone form hero to zero for me now. I just cannot see how I will play it for much longer. I just find it boring and tedious now. I tell you how bad it is for me, I havn't even looked at all the maps. Also, if any of you guys are under the illusion that it's just me thinking this, then I think you should jump off those beta servers you were on, pre release, and listen to what others are saying. Most players I played with tonight hated these changes.

Also, is it impossible to make the Rp a choice of the people running the servers? I have been asked this question by some guys running a server.