Why no inter-squad teamwork?

[badmojo420]

My biggest question is, why does it happen so rarely?

Really, unless the server is filled with people using mumble, there is a huge lack of inter-squad teamwork in PR. It's apparent in AAS, but not as much as insurgency mode. In AAS the flags force the squads together somewhat, but in insurgency you will constantly see squads off on their own, or multiple squads attacking the same cache from different angles, or half the team on one cache, and half on the other, etc. And now with the new rallypoint system, we're seeing lots of individuals trickling out of the main or an FOB, alone, walking towards their SL or even just the objective. I don't want to turn this into a discussion about team tactics, but i think it's fair to say that you only have strength in numbers. So why would a squad leader not chose to regroup with the rest of its members, or even to support another squad for the duration? Why is it more appealing for perfectly good squad leaders to take their 6 guys and go off on their own?

I said 'unless the server is filled with people using mumble' because when most of the people on the server have mumble, they tend to stick together so they can talk to each other. But does that mean people stick together because they can talk? Or that they stick together so they can talk? Because we've got the ability to communicate with other teammates(who are not in our squad) by using the radio commands. So I tend to believe people just stick together to make use of the features mumble adds, the added teamwork tactics are just an added bonus. Am I wrong here, is the lack of voice communication the ONLY thing keeping inter-squad teamwork from happening?

This is not a rant thread, and I don't want to hear that I need to find a better server. I'm genuinely interested in the thought process that leads to the gameplay(that i've described above) we see in the majority of servers. I'm mainly looking for replies from people who regularly lead squads, but anyone is welcome to give their input.

[BlackFallout]

Right now the servers are inundated with noobs I played in an APC squad and the driver of my APC just decides to start driving all over the place. This was on silent eagle and we were in a BTR..... and then promptly got killed. I asked him what he was doing and he said looking for stuff to kill......


However I was able to shoot down two Chinooks with the BMPs ATGM 9M117. Which almost made up for the overwhelming amount of noobs on the server. Cant remember which server it was though. I think it was one of the Virginia servers.

[BlackFallout]

Eh... it's kind of a mess right now. I've given up on playing a good round on muttrah or barracuda atm, as the rate at which the marines lose tickets due to choppers is just unsustainable. I've tried leading a squad and then following another squad around but even that hasn't worked too well. A lot of people are joining a squad just to get access to kits, and after they get them they typically go off and do their own thing. There are people who are actually trying to learn the game, I'm not trying to generalize here, but it takes so few people to ruin a round for one side on a lot of the maps.

ALSO there are NO training servers anymore. So all these people who might have gone to a training server to figure out how things work have to do that INGAME with us.

[Shaihuluid]

yeah, it is a real problem. Mumble has been flaunted around as the "answer", but I'm really not much of a fan. what pubbies really need is a competant commander who's not only willing to place arty fire, but organize platoon-level movement. probably unrealistic, but you can't expect squad leaders to have both a good tactical sense of their position while doing serious inter-squad strategizing.

[BloodBane611]

Part of the problem is that many people who lead squads are either unwilling or unable to communicate with other SLs. On a lot of servers I'll propose that my squad defend the current flag and the other squads attack, and the response I'll get is something like "STFU n00b, who made you comm?". That attitude is a big problem, and it's nothing new.

[Sniperdog]

If everyone was in mumble there would be dramatically less issues with all this stuff. Any decent person will stop doing something stupid if someone else is up front with them in mumble about it. Its just a shame it cant be integrated...

[Psyrus]

and the response I'll get is something like "STFU n00b, who made you comm?". That attitude is a big problem, and it's nothing new.

^^^ This is the problem. And even when you do go commander, they just say STFU

[offmason]

This has everything to do with the new rally system.

Project Reality tries to do too much as far as "realism" goes without the rudimentary communication required for such inter-squad cooperation. I feel like inter-squad communication came naturally with rally points, because the emphasis was on coordinated attack instead of coordinated defense (which in general no one really cares about). There is a lack of cohesion because there are way too many things to do for the whole team, lack of communications and squads usually do not have a solid generalized strategy.

Balancing the defense and assault aspects creates big cracks in the team.

[Tartantyco]

There's just a lack of servers that actively enforce teamwork around. Sure, there are a couple of servers but in relation to the total amount of players it simply isn't enough. I can only suggest that if you play on a server where teamwork is lacking you suggest to admins that they try to enforce teamwork better and also advertise/enforce mumble. The first thing to do however, is to make the first move; try to communicate with other SLs, start doing some logistics yourself, go commander, etc. If none of that works and there's no progress with admins then just abandon the server for good.

Also, Reality Teamwork has an additional server up at the moment to try to deal with the demand so if you find no good servers and can't get into the ones you want you should try to seed that server and get it going.


EDIT: Oh, go away offmason. The only thing the new rally system did was remove the crux that non-teamwork oriented players depended on. Now that they suddenly are without it they freak out, like you are doing.

[Bluedrake42]

well hopefully as the commander role becomes more and more enjoyable to play more people will use it correctly.

[Cassius]

Even with mumble on very good servers it does not happen often enough. Squads right now are like soldier in BF I.

Do the first step, if you move in on a flag, rally with another squadleader first and move in with 12 men.

[Bringerof_D]

sometimes when the communication just isnt possible or friendly squads wont listen or say STFU, instead of trying, i just adapt to what their doing and use it to my advantage. so instead of asking him to flank the other side, i see he's going straight, i'll organize a flank from the other side in my squad.

^works a whole lot better than arguing with them. if they wont do it you do it, get the points for yourself and rub it in his face when his whole squad dies.

[offmason]

Even with mumble on very good servers it does not happen often enough. Squads right now are like soldier in BF I.

Do the first step, if you move in on a flag, rally with another squadleader first and move in with 12 men.

I agree.

EDIT: Oh, go away offmason. The only thing the new rally system did was remove the crux that non-teamwork oriented players depended on. Now that they suddenly are without it they freak out, like you are doing.

Screw yourself. I came to answer the OP's thread. I'm not going to leave just because you like walking for most of the match. I tend to think that most people want to actually play. I'm not going to ride the coat-tails of the developers... like you are doing.

I have an opinion, and I will make it known. Whether you like it or not.

[joethepro36]

I have an opinion, and I will make it known. Whether you like it or not.

Every release we get a dozen or so guys loudly complaining about how the changes have COMPLETELY RUINED THE GAME FOREVER. This is of course before they have played the game for more than 2 days or even waited for the after-release "what do I do on this map" buzz to wear off. Complaining or "making thoughts known" have absolutely no effect when the majority of people enjoy the changes and the DEVs have stated there is no problem.


As for the problem of inter-squad teamwork, it's quite simple. At the moment, both as a squad leader and as a squad member I have much to learn about the maps and the game mechanics. I find myself not knowing where a "safe" FOB position is or what the correct route of approach to an objective is. As those are critical functions of a game, it makes it very difficult to play. Inter-squad teamwork is reliant upon the basic knowledge and gameplay of an individual squad beforehand. I will gladly help out another squad and often request support and the like but it is the necessary tasks that come first.

When I assault an objective I go through a mental list of criteria that I prefer to have before I am happy:
1) Is the defend objective actively defended?
2) Are my squad in one position, properly equipped and ready to move?
3) Do I know a way to get to the objective and how I will get there?
4) Do I have air/armour support on call?
5) Do I have supplies on call?
6) Is there a fellow squad working nearby that could help?

My last priority as a squad leader is getting another squad on the horn to attack. This is not because it is important for my squad to work independantly on the battlefield, but because actively working with another squad is difficult, very difficult in fact. Without mumble, inter-squad communication consists of typing into teamchat what to do and how to do something. This is slow and doesn't amount to much. As this is a pub game I do not expect a commander skilled enough to relay information, so that isn't an option. I will usually ask other squads to do things but this takes time out of leading my squad, which is critical to my squad's success.

Most of the problem stems from playing in public games. In a clan match where a high level of knowledge and proficency is required, the focus boils down to weapon skill and luck rather than teamwork and co-ordination.

[gazzthompson]

I play RT normally, so dont have this problem due to the heavy mumble usage. I cant even player on other servers anymore, once you get use to having constant communication with all other squad leaders you cant go back. As for new RP system effecting it, well it just makes **** squad ineffective and they should pull there fingers out.

[offmason]

Complaining or "making thoughts known" have absolutely no effect when the majority of people enjoy the changes and the DEVs have stated there is no problem.

Not from what I've seen. I don't see the numbers in the servers.

[joethepro36]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... ryone.html

I'm not arguing about rally points in this thread, I've already said what I wanted in this thread already.

[gazzthompson]

Not from what I've seen. I don't see the numbers in the servers.

to be frank, who cares what people say in the servers? come post here if they dislike the effect. be part of the community and talk with the devs. they couldnt be assed to oppose it during the beta so thats there problem.

Theres a reason why the forums have feedback threads, devs cant monitor the servers.

[offmason]

TG and RT are the only servers will large scale mumble use, and normally have a full server of mumblers.

Didn't know they constitute the majority.