Dump Truck

Drunkenup · Post by **Drunkenup** » 2010-02-11 15:27

I played Fallujah West yesterday as American and decided to run armor squad, As we headed in the Abrams, we were taken out on the main road as the bomb truck flanked us before the gun was ready. Slightly mad, we noticed that the uber blast radius had destroyed and killed everyone, and everything inside main, Log trucks, humvees, and a single Bradley. All were behind barriers, etc. We waited to take the LAV-25s to spawn, and as we took those, We saw the a Dump truck head out and pass the arch way, both LAVs put it on AP and began to light up the Dump truck. It was approximately 20 meters away from us when its driver decided blow us both up, my LAV, which was about 50 meters away from the Dump truck died as well. My argument, is just as much about the damage it can take, to the blast radius of its bomb. Together, both LAVs put about 30-40 rounds of AP into the front of the Dump truck. Prior to exploding, it was only smoking. If I may recall from Kashan, using the Bradley against a Anti-aircraft version of the BRDM-2, it took about 10 rounds to take it out. The BRDM-2, despite being weak, has some armor. Does anyone agree, that the Dump truck may be slightly overpowered?

KEIOS · Post by **KEIOS** » 2010-02-11 15:30

Since Fallujah with Vehicles was always a Fragfest for Tankwh*res, i do not agree. Now it is possible to get rid of those tanks, when you get them in surprise and its more fun to play Insurgent now on that map.

Heskey · Post by **Heskey** » 2010-02-11 15:31

I have to say the blast radius is ridiculous.

Similarly, myself and Element66 were running an armour squad as we often do, and travelling South to North on Fallujah West, we approached the large arch-way outside US Main.

A good 30-40 metres (checked after death by ourselves) away, the bomb truck comes around the corner of the wall to the north. We immediately fire a shot setting it on fire, so the driver makes it explode there and then.

From that 30-40 metre distance our tank outright exploded, and as per the rules of the map, never respawned again...

KEIOS wrote:Since Fallujah with Vehicles was always a Fragfest for Tankwh*res, i do not agree. Now it is possible to get rid of those tanks, when you get them in surprise and its more fun to play Insurgent now on that map.

Disagree, there was no element of surprise involved in the incident described above; a truck spotted at some distance still got rid of the tank.

KEIOS · Post by **KEIOS** » 2010-02-11 15:34

So you couldn´t just spawnrape Insurgents with the tanks anymore, like it was possible in 0.8?

Drunkenup · Post by **Drunkenup** » 2010-02-11 15:38

KEIOS wrote:So you couldn´t just spawnrape Insurgents with the tanks anymore, like it was possible in 0.8?

That was before... We're taking about Present time. And the issue of the matter is not the tank, it is the bomb truck.

Plus that adds on to my argument, how could any vehicle short of a heavily armored APC could survive a Tank round, as Heskey as experienced? No matter if its heat or AP, in 0.9, Heat rounds were also made to effect vehicles as well.

KEIOS · Post by **KEIOS** » 2010-02-11 15:42

And i am saying that those bomb trucks are now balancing the gameplay. The large amount of tanks on Fallujah always led to frustration on playing Insurgents..

KasperX · Post by **KasperX** » 2010-02-11 15:50

No the bomb truck is not overpowered. I totally think the INS deserve to have one thing on the map that can cause HEAVY damage and strike fear into the BLUFOR forces.

Heskey Re: Dump Truck
I have to say the blast radius is ridiculous.

A good 30-40 metres (checked after death by ourselves) away, the bomb truck comes around the corner of the wall to the north. We immediately fire a shot setting it on fire, so it explodes.

From that 30-40 metre distance our tank outright exploded, and as per the rules of the map, never respawned again...

30 to 40 m away and ur complaining about the blast radius? The dumptruck isn't carrying a pipe bomb or grenade. How should the DEV's dumb down the Dumptruck so that ur tank can pwnz even if a bomb truck gets within 30-40m of u?

Kasp

archerfenris · Post by **archerfenris** » 2010-02-11 15:50

If this was honestly realistic nothing the insurgents have in their possession could take out an M1A1 Abrams. Unless they have some depleted uranium sabo rounds I've never heard of, no bomb, no matter how big, is going to pierce the armor of that tank, the armor is just too advanced.

So to answer your question. No the blasting radius is just fine, if you fill a dumptruck with explosives....yeah, guys 50 meters away will get wounded. But the tank should basically survive EVERYTHING.

Drunkenup · Post by **Drunkenup** » 2010-02-11 15:50

KEIOS wrote:And i am saying that those bomb trucks are now balancing the gameplay. The large amount of tanks on Fallujah always led to frustration on playing Insurgents..

Theres one tank, one Bradley, and Two LAV-25s. The Tank and bradley do not respond, and the LAV-25s are heavily RPG prone as they are.

What bomb is the one on the dump truck supposed to represent anyway? A Mk 84?

Heskey · Post by **Heskey** » 2010-02-11 15:51

Sorry KEIOS but your argument doesn't hold.

A.) It's tank SINGULAR, and it's only just been added. Do you mean APCs?

B.) A bomb truck with a boom-radius for a considerable amount of it's line-of-sight isn't "balancing the gameplay", it's quite simply put IMbalance.

Also, please don't come that "Aww diddums" **** with me; I don't know you, and you don't know me, or how one another plays this game.

Fact of the matter is, I'm trying to help raise a legitimate point here and you're tarring everyone with the same brush. Just because you once got hemmed in at main whilst some unsporting moron blew you to pieces doesn't mean everyone wants to do that; or has ever done that (your assumption that I have done this kind of annoys me to be honest, considering you don't know me). It may just be possible that some folk would like to see the game reasonably balanced.

(READ: Use of the term 'balance' here doesn't refer to giving all armies the same tickets/weapon damages etc...)

To those who say 'No it's even'd out the playing field', 40m may not sound like much; but go in game and see for yourself if you think that's a reasonable distance to outright blow-up a heavily armoured vehicle like a tank.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2010-02-11 15:57

It's "catastrophic" damage against armour was supposed to be no more than 25m. Just a slight unintended issue that will be adjusted.

alberto_di_gio · Post by **alberto_di_gio** » 2010-02-11 15:58

KEIOS wrote:Since Fallujah with Vehicles was always a Fragfest for Tankwh*res, i do not agree...

^+1

Even with 2 APC Fellujah was enough blood bath against INS. And now with an Abrams in it hop you did not think it will be priceless.

Heskey · Post by **Heskey** » 2010-02-11 15:59

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:It's "catastrophic" damage against armour was supposed to be no more than 25m. Just a slight unintended issue that will be adjusted.

There we go then chaps; from the DEV's mouth himself.

That's that settled. Thanks Jaymz.

Rissien · Post by **Rissien** » 2010-02-11 16:00

The new bomb truck has two bombs in the back. Why wouldnt it be more destructive than Big Red?

But the tank should basically survive EVERYTHING.

Now what would the point in playing as Insurgent if they couldnt kill the tank. This unstoppable warmachine that can keep you pinned down at range and you cant even kill? The dump truck has TWO aircraft deployed bombs in the back, yeah I think it can die. The proxy IED's are still basically anti-tank mines, opne isnt going to roll over one of those and survive. And well someone gets close enough to him even in a bomb car he deserves to die. I drove up through the grass and actually cruzed right next to the tank for about five seconds untill it got vlose to their main before hitting the music and blowing up. If your situational awareness is that bad you dont notince a car driving right next to you, its your own damn fault.

In end the explosion is awesome, watched its destruction first hand several times in one map, i swear it even shook the map.

Nebsif · Post by **Nebsif** » 2010-02-11 16:13

Its not only the blast radius, 1st time I played fallujah on 09, I joined the tank squad and we drove out of main. I saw a bomb truck like 60m away from me and I was on HEAT. I put one round right into the glass infront of the driver and nothing, both driver and truck survived and he was stilll moving towards me, so I shot another heat round into the driver cabin and only then it started smoking badly but he was already 2 close and 1 sec after, he drove 0.5m near me and blew up everything inside and near the US main.

U guys are saying that if the tank crew is careless and blabla it should get punished, ok, but u dont need to sneak up on ppl with that truck, its has an armor of an APC, u can just drive straight on a tank and boom. >.<

T.Nightingale · Post by **T.Nightingale** » 2010-02-11 16:27

KEIOS wrote:And i am saying that those bomb trucks are now balancing the gameplay. The large amount of tanks on Fallujah always led to frustration on playing Insurgents..

I never experienced that if anything it was fun to pick them off as the big idiots drove around.
The idea is yes it balances tank vs. insurgent but it completely destroys anything else therefore over weighing the sides.
Question is do we make it easier to destroy with a big blast radius and power or do we make it hard to destroy with a small blast radius.
Even after that... How often does it spawn and how often do the opposite equivalents spawn.

Trust me it is alot to deal with. But to suit realism there should be two dump trucks with a huge blast radius and damn easy to kill.
Fallujah west city would not have that many even if it had one.
Also dump trucks may have strong cargo/crushing section but its cab would be weak as a normal car. Also it is meant to have like a nuke equivalent bomb or something.

So
1. Big blast radius
2. Easy to destroy
3. Very limited supply

I believe would make it fair.

google · Post by **google** » 2010-02-11 16:27

The other day on Karbala, we unloaded a HEAT shell into Big Red, but it kept coming at us and blew us up... The same thing happened to another amor crew the night after (only it was the Dump Truck).

illidur · Post by **illidur** » 2010-02-11 16:36

whats funny is that the bomb truck can kill the tank at 100m+. but jaymz already said it was getting fixed. about it taking more than 1 round from the tank.... big red could in .87 and ppl are just now complaining? imo i think that the bombtruck shouldn't be on fallujah at all. bombcars could easily take out the tank if they use 3 ppl worth of strategy. just like it takes 3 ppl to man a tank.

Shredhead99 · Post by **Shredhead99** » 2010-02-11 16:37

I don't really see the problem here. In every round Falludja I played in 0.9, the US won, with big advance, because Bluefor is imba now. Even if this precious tank gets blown up by a slowly crouching truck where you can shoot out the driver with a short burst, US won't have the slightest problem to win this map.
And I didn't even start about the ridiculously nerfed IEDs, which allow US now to drive around the whole map unpunished.

Skull · Post by **Skull** » 2010-02-11 16:38

i think the dump truck is pretty balanced since you have 250 tickets and +25tickets for every cache and you only have to get 7. thats not much imho and the inf is way more advanced, so the insurgents need something.