Training to Co-op

[RealKail]

The purpose of me making this thread is to gather some community feedback on training being converted to co-op. I apologize if this seems out of place or has already been discussed though I was unable to locate it in a search. I'm hoping we can get some mature and helpful feedback and that the thread will not end up locked.

To my understanding, training was axed for co-op because it was felt the training mode wasn't effective at helping newcomers to PR to learn the ropes. In regards to that, I feel that the co-op mode is far more ineffective than training was.

My main gripe is this: In co-op mode vehicles were modified to accomodate for bot usage. These vehicles basically handle like they would in vanilla BF2. Now while most veteran PR members will be able to tell the difference, a newcomer is not going to be as quick to identify. This leads to them being misguided as to how the vehicles actually work in deployment servers.

On a positive note though I do like that the co-op mode incorporates securing control points like you would in AAS mode.

I'm eager to hear what everybody else thinks of this change.

[Su34]

Well, I like this change.
However, I habe to "admit" that I habe been playing this game since 0.5. But still, I mostly play with the standart kits, since I simply habe not enough practice with H-AT, grenadier etc. In Coop in 0.9 I could properly test the H-AT for the first time in my carreer, since there ware some stupid bots and it was easy to get the kit without distrubing the whole team. Same goes for AR etc.
Also flying jets and bombing is much easyer now, since the bots are an easy target that has no problem with getting killed over and over again. (or do they...? )

But I still see your point: It hard to learn the game, if you can drive and gun an APC at the same time or things like that.

[dtacs]

Short story: There should be both. But training was better, I liked to touch up my skills in the heli when my intertubes were shaped by starting up a local training server and getting littlebird practice.

[xXbrick84Xx]

I'm going to agree with RealKail on this one, I believe that the substitution of Co-op mode for training was a bad idea. Operating vehicles seems unrealistic in this game mode and the fact that your usually in a squad full of bots, teamwork is very limited. I think if they really wanted to make a realistic depiction of the real PR, then they would keep the bots, but only put them on the OPFOR team, which would force the BLUFOR team to work together somewhat. This woud allow new players to get used to working together as a team and would better prepare them to play real matches.

[space]

Similar threads have already been posted a few times. I've been working on a vehicle training map for the past few days, and it should be ready for release later this week (I've finally got it to run on 0.9 in the last hour ). Keep an eye on the RT map section for details :

RT Vehicle Training Map - Reality Teamwork

[Himalde]

The RT Vehicle Training Map space is talking about will run on a passworded RT server. With modified spawn times, both for assets and players. Stay tuned for more details and pic in the RT forums.

[Snazz]

To my understanding, training was axed for co-op because it was felt the training mode wasn't effective at helping newcomers to PR to learn the ropes.

It was axed apparently because of the 'vanilla BF2' style battles that occurred online.

Post by Fuzzhead:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f411-pr-v0-87-feedback-forum/53931-kashan-desert-training.html#post1008065

we will remove the training modes from kashan and qinling as they are not really "training" but more like arcade deathmatch.

There was arcade deathmatch, but there was also useful training. It was not necessary to remove the mode completely, instead the OPFOR could just be nerfed to deter fighting.

It was effective for asset practice, the low spawntimes and variety of vehicles provided newcomers a convenient and forgiving way to learn how to fly/drive.

There are alternatives as I've stated in earlier posts, like hosting local servers or editing the map files. But obviously it still isn't the same as training mode.

In regards to that, I feel that the co-op mode is far more ineffective than training was.

Co-op and Training both have their strong and weak points when it comes to helping people play PR.

Co-op allows predictable but reliable, moving target practice in the form of bot opponents. It also caters more infantry-centric training and a wider variety of maps. Being able to request any kit you want lets you easily practice with any weapon, whilst training mode still had squad member requirements.

However it plays out just as much like vanilla BF2 deathmatch (in some ways more) than training mode did. Which I remind everyone again is the exact reason given for removing training.

My main gripe is this: In co-op mode vehicles were modified to accomodate for bot usage. These vehicles basically handle like they would in vanilla BF2. Now while most veteran PR members will be able to tell the difference, a newcomer is not going to be as quick to identify. This leads to them being misguided as to how the vehicles actually work in deployment servers.

I agree, I saw a lot of newbies saying things like 'wtf these jets are more unrealistic than BF2' and had to explain the reason to them. You can also single crew assets and have ridiculous dogfights.

On a positive note though I do like that the co-op mode incorporates securing control points like you would in AAS mode.

True, there's definitely advantages to co-op. It just doesn't fill the void of kashan training when it comes to relevant, newb-friendly asset practice. They should both be in PR complimenting each other.

[Hans Martin Slayer]

Sorry guys, i didn't take those things in consideration when i did the 0.9 version.

I'm working on some improvements for Kashan COOP, there shouldn't be any confusion in the next version.

[Professor]

Hope that "team-damage" will be off in Co-op as there are plenty of morons who like to shove their jets in your chopper for LOLz

[lucidrians]

Training mode on Kashan taught me how to fly helicopters, always a good 32 people on the servers, good re spawn time on the heli's, always people using AA so you had to watch out for that, plenty of places to practise landing, plenty of places to practice aerobatics, plenty of people to shoot. So far co-op mode hasn't offered much of this at all.

[BabylonCome]

I started a discussion on the lack of training mode here:> https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... -mode.html

So most of my views are found there.... The problem is now that I have now way of training new members to our clan that want to learn more skills within PR especially flying. Also this is for PR in general, before you could go on an empty training server and learn to fly to your hearts content.... Now you have the unrealistic Co-op mode or live servers (which is happening more and more now) - if you try and learn on live filled servers you are going to get kicked or banned for wasting assets...

Yet again the dev's have made a decision to change things without asking the community of people that love the game what they think and have totally destroyed the way in which the system works (just like the changes to Asad Khal & Muttrah).

[killercaleb]

Yea guys i agree i am new to pr but it would be nice to have a training version.Also i was wondering how do i get the pilot kit?

[Skodz]

I don't understand why people play single player mode against stupid bot, to me, PR is mean't to be played with real people, that single player mode feel as bad as Arma 2, I don't know why people like to play against stupid AI. It's a lot more fun and challenging to play against real humans and I think it's sad this single player mode replaced the training mode. I also feel the single player mode take players away from the real mode .

Even though the training mode was not perfect, I think it was a lot more useful than co-op to learn how PR weapons/vehicles work and even to do some infantry training with a good group.