Korengal Valley

[Roguehellhound]

I'm surprise no one has stated this yet for the record despite it being discussed.

About last year, I made a post about the limitations and the very challenging task for the BLufor team(US Army) to actually win on that map.

Well with the new Rally Point system and place coupled with the new position of the Mainbase (great job btw, looks amazing) It's now borderline impossible.

Example? On Korengal Valley Tuesday night, was playing with a pub squad.
Despite great teamwork and coordination and being the ONLY SQUAD to make it past the middle part of the map on the south section(the rest of the team kept getting annihilated)

that part of sneaking past enemy lines and not firing unless engaged upon worked

well that was just the beginning.

while attempting our trek up the mountain with our 2 specialist kited guys, one of them fell off a "bad rope" and had gotten glitched between a tree, medic could not revive.
Placed a rally , he spwned back.
As we are traveling along making progress and being the only squad within 300meters from the red square on the map.. We drew contact and engaged.
Despite my medic working as hard as he can to smoke, search and heal, he got cut down when a techie came in and unloaded a torrent of hell onto my squads position.
after losing 2 of my guys, we fell back and had to regroup.

Problem was, NO RALLY, so doing what we had to do. we Fell back and waited until the enemy got away from my down medic so we can retrieve the kit and revived.

Long story short, we came back and BOOOM!!!! nade trap on a body my grenadier got taken out and enemy came back and commenced buttzex with the rest of us.
I stared at the screen dying inside knowing that we had to start from main again.

97 tickets, no cache
well that was a GG for me, said my byes to the squad and retired for the day.

Map is great, but gameplay wise? not so good
I think we need some helos to insert people there as suggested before and increase the size of that outpost along with possible themed road that has available spwns to represent reinforcements.

Korengal use to be a map that was attracting people. now if your US, not even worth trying.

hell as i recall some servers had success of sorts on winning, because they would have an informant to spy on the cache location for them

[Kain888]

From my 3 games on Korengal - two were won by US Army.

Map is quite good IMO. Glitches have to be fixed (that HMG nest is scary!) and there should be some X wire at the entrance to the US main to prevent suicide cars driving in and killing everybody inside.

[Rissien]

That came from a full server with coordinating squads.

[Roguehellhound]

huh, mileages very, most of the time when i played on Korengal (.9) its always as US losing..
i guess i've been very unlucky with pub sqds, have not played with my clanmates on that map yet.

b/c it was horrible, kept losing vehicles as they were leaving main and such.
looking for the caches was a chore. either a crappy BluFor team when i play or great INS team-or both

I'll pop on the =]H[= INS server to give it a whirl when you guys play it.

[Nebsif]

3/3 times I played it in 09 US won, twice with 150+ tickets and once with 60 when talibanis were campin US main from the mountains where the 2 last caches were. Luv the new korengal, used to hate it in 09.

[CodeRedFox]

Roguehellhound there is a post/blog about it with my current updates for the next patch. It was put up as a blog as the suggestions were not open at the time.

I'm very open to ideas and more importantly comments as long as you have a cool head and its thought out. Just realize that I have always gone against the normal "PR" grain about map fairness and symmetrical loadouts. In fact I set out to make the map hard. Its a 1km (feels like 2k) and has a possibility of 150 cache locations. I think almost every building has one. Its got crappy ground that cant be trans versed. The main can (when in a random event) be camped...but not spawn camped

I've tried allot of experiments on that map until recently in every version.

Having some chopper support or transport would rock. But its a PR maps size rule not to add choppers to this size I will not add one back in. Its just too small of a map. Maybe in Korengal V3 (v2 being the latest base change) I will be changing the size to 2km or 4km. But for now I have to work with a small map.

Check it out for my latest thought and changed that are being implemented.
New Korengal opinions - Project Reality Forums

Your still all welcome to continue posting here as well as I follow all thread about Korengal.

[Jigsaw]

@OP I think your problem during the specified round was that whilst you say you had;

"great teamwork and coordination and being the ONLY SQUAD to make it past the middle part of the map on the south section(the rest of the team kept getting annihilated)"

It seems to me like you may have had more coordination within your squad than the overall team. Korengal is a map where the entire team needs to work together and the reason your squad failed when attempting to assault the cache was because you were just one squad.

From what I have seen Korengal in 0.9 is very nicely balanced and I have not had any majority win/lose for either team. Its all about the people playing.

In addition if you get within reasonable distance of a cache marker and come under sustained fire, yet have no idea where the cache may actually be located you should fall back immediately and approach from a different route. Have a look at gazzthompson's tactics thread for BLUFOR on insurgency.

[Drunkenup]

In my opinion the Korengal Valley concept on this map should be reworked completely. Like transitioning to a 2x2km size, a more isolated, further from the enemy. But you can make this sorta happen by moving the main base to reasonably covered area in a corner of the map. In my opinion, if there isn't teamwide coordination, its pretty hard to make your way out of the base without being fired upon from the mountains. The problem exactly with the last main base, was the fact that it was open and without cover. What I would've suggested is moving the main base to a higher elevated area with tons of cover allowing inf to set a point of attack and achieve it.

In my personal point of view, administrating on this map, is very much hell as well.

[dtacs]

It seems to me like you may have had more coordination within your squad than the overall team. Korengal is a map where the entire team needs to work together and the reason your squad failed when attempting to assault the cache was because you were just one squad.Which is an absolutely HUGE ask for a pub game. Get that in private matches and scrims sure, but never on pub games unless each squad leader is decent, can speak english, and can understand the commanders orders. In my 2 years of playing I have never seen that.

From what I have seen Korengal in 0.9 is very nicely balanced and I have not had any majority win/lose for either team. Its all about the people playing.
See my post below.

In addition if you get within reasonable distance of a cache marker and come under sustained fire, yet have no idea where the cache may actually be located you should fall back immediately and approach from a different route. Have a look at gazzthompson's tactics thread for BLUFOR on insurgency.See post below again. 2 caches in the exact same location, with only 3 routes to access/ 'YEAH, NO PROBLEM AT ALL'.

Look at F1.



Two caches spawned there. The mountains outside the US main are unclimbable due to the reasons below even though static objects have been put in. We had excellent teamwork, 3 squads attacking in 3 different directions and were all talking to eachother, however, it was imPOSSIBLE to break through the Taliban defense due to the idiotic lack of assets or armored vehicles and only one single supply truck.

To whoever made this map, were the static boulders near the US main's mountains playtested first? Why are each of them perfectly out of range of the grapples?

Not to mention the new main encourages more baserape than the old one..

One other thing that people tend to forget on Insurgency maps is that firebases often go down within 10 minutes of being built due to the simple fact that if a tango sees it either being built or has been built, he will stop at NOTHING to destroy it, and thanks to there being no tickets, they will keep coming and coming. The solution? Have a squad defending. The problem with that solution? It encourages 'Hangbackkery Syndrome'* and takes a squad off the search for caches and offensive patrolling.

I absolutely agree with the OP, for the Taliban Korengal is just another laugh, but for the US it is a frustrating headbashing session, complete waste of time when there are decent, balanced maps out there. The fact that the blufor are almost winning every Insurgency map (Karbala is over in about an hour, I finished Fallujah as US in 30 minutes) is testament to the overall failure which is Korengal 0.9. I appreciate the mapmakers efforts however.

[CodeRedFox]

The cache issue is a PR thing, the more we pull away form 1km maps the more code pushes the random placement off the map...sucks.

To whoever made this map, were the static boulders near the US main's mountains playtested first? Why are each of them perfectly out of range of the grapples?

What boulders? There are allot of rocks (boulders), cliffs and cave around the map. Not everything is ment to be climbable.

The fact that the blufor are almost winning every Insurgency map (Karbala is over in about an hour, I finished Fallujah as US in 30 minutes) is testament to the overall failure which is Korengal 0.9. I appreciate the mapmakers efforts however.

I disagrees, and as other have said so as well. Again, its a hard map. Its not ment to be symmetrical. And to add to that its a 1km map. Its really small.

Hopefully some of the upcoming changes will help out as I agree the Taliban have it way to easy.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

I think the map is great, but the movement is very limited by the terrain. I don't mean the hills, I mean the tiny little bumps in them. It does get really frustrating to waste your sprint in 2 jumps just to find yourself in the same spot. Would be nice to be able to get a scout chopper just so bluefor, but if the PR rules limit it, that's fine. I think US should have a bit more transport, perhaps the new armored HMMV's if they are ready for .91 and it should definitely have at least 2 supply trucks

[dtacs]

CodeRedFox;1280201']The cache issue is a PR thing, the more we pull away form 1km maps the more code pushes the random placement off the map...sucks.

What boulders? There are allot of rocks (boulders), cliffs and cave around the map. Not everything is ment to be climbable.

I disagrees, and as other have said so as well. Again, its a hard map. Its not ment to be symmetrical. And to add to that its a 1km map. Its really small.

Hopefully some of the upcoming changes will help out as I agree the Taliban have it way to easy.

There is a difference between map size and map depth. Korengal is an xbox-huge valley so it makes walking across it all that much longer, if anything I find it much more bigger than Gaza, especially after the chopper was removed.

I'm talking about the boulders right outside the US main (the mountains behind it where trees have just been added in), which seemed to have been added for climbing with the specialist however they are about one or so meters out of grapple range, almost completely useless, and grappling onto trees is hard enough already.