Increasing Splash of Hydras

[Hunt3r]

I realized I only put one thing as the title, but this is two suggestions really. I'm going to assume here that the Hydras in PR are for anti-personnel and light armor, thus they are HE frag, or HEDP.

Regardless, the Hydras are pretty underpowered right now, pretty much requiring a salvo of 10-19 of them to achieve any telling effect against dispersed infantry.

In reality, the blast of the Hydras is giant. Even if HEDP, shrapnel can fly as far as 50 meters. With HE frag warheads, the amount of explosives in it is greater then a 155mm artillery shell.

What should be the equivalent of an artillery barrage isn't much, or at least it doesn't feel like it. If I'm wrong, you may lynch me for it, but the deviation means that the rockets are quite widely dispersed, and they don't have much punch anyhow, so they aren't very good. I'd like to have the blast be big enough so that there aren't potential gaps in the beaten zone.

To compensate, I'd like the loading time to be increased. If you fire off all 38 rockets, you should have to wait 2-3 minutes for all 38 to be reloaded. This will make sure that you use the rockets carefully.

[mangeface]

Actually, Hydras only have the splash radius of about an M67 fragmentation grenade. Frag grenades only spash about 25-30 meters, and any further than that would just cut the skin, but do very little damage. This isn't a Hellfire or Tow that we're talking about, just a rocket. And if they were designed for infantry, they would contain about thousands of flechette darts, not high explosives.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/hydra-70.htm

I decided I'll add a link to a page that says the different types of warheads for the Hydras. Not sure on how accurate this site may be, but it seemed like the most ligit that I read through. Pay close attention to the first type of HE, and how is says that it only has a burst radius up to 10 meters, and could kill up to 50 meters. That DOES NOT mean that it's guarenteed. I figured that's the type of warhead the Devs use.

[Rudd]

What should be the equivalent of an artillery barrage isn't much,

I think you are overestimating the power of hydras there

[Jafar Ironclad]

If I understand correctly, when Hydras aren't being used against soft targets, they're used against hard targets (like tanks) with the intention of not destroying them but keeping the crew inside the confines of the vehicle. Blowing up the hard target is the hellfire missile's job.

[Hunt3r]

M151 HE

This M151 is an anti-personnel, anti-material warhead to be used against "soft" targets. The 1.04kg of B4 explosive has a blast radius of 33 feet. The warhead is designed to fragment, showing the area with lethal shards of metal, lethal to a range of 164 feet.

M229 HE

This is a somewhat heavier version of the M151. The amount of B4 explosive has been increased to 2.17kg, which has a corresponding increase in the blast radius.

Aviation Encyclopedia: AH-64D Longbow Apache

There is an alternate warhead with double the bang, which is the warhead that has more power then a 155mm shell. M151 is the one you guys are referring to. I'm saying that we should use the M229 as the benchmark. If we're going to use the HEAT/HEDP warhead as a base, then we should up the damage it does to armor.

[Alex6714]

Well in game they are all the same..

But they should be different, Z10 should have 55mm rockets, Havok, 80mm rockets, AH 64D apache/cobra 70mm hydra 70 and WAH 64apache 70mm CRV-7s (which would be basically faster, slightly more powerful hydras).

Depending on if they are using flechette warheads, the HEISAP ones or whichever.

[Jaymz]

Well in game they are all the same..

Actually, while not being as diverse as it could be, we do model two different rocket pod missiles. In-game, it's like..

Hydra-70 and S-8 - Apache, Cobra and Havoc

• Kill Radius - 5m
• Wound Radius - 20m

S-5 and equivalent - Used currently on SU-25 and will be used on Z-10 in future versions (I forgot to change the projectile template, Alex. Thanks for reminding me )

• Kill Radius - 3m
• Wound Radius - 16m

With HE frag warheads, the amount of explosives in it is greater then a 155mm artillery shell.

While the lethal and wound radii could do with a raise, no way in hell is a 70mm HE rocket going to even come close to a 155mm HE shell. An M107 produces a 50m kill radius and can cause casualties in excess of 100m.

[HAAN4]

The only guys how can say it is fine, is MIlitary Advisors, no me, not anyone.

[killonsight95]

the only problem is that the hydras are aminly used against infantry and arn't really meant for amss destruction of squads and FOB's mostly they should be used for disorganising and annoyign the enemy

[Alex6714]

Actually, while not being as diverse as it could be, we do model two different rocket pod missiles. In-game, it's like..

Ah, good to know.

the only problem is that the hydras are aminly used against infantry and arn't really meant for amss destruction of squads and FOB's mostly they should be used for disorganising and annoyign the enemy

Is there anything that should be used agaisnt infantry?

[darklord63]

Hydras are already awesome, on Muttrah for instance, your sl gives you cordinates you start firing 800m away, sometimes blindly and you will tear up the enemy.

[Hunt3r]

While the lethal and wound radii could do with a raise, no way in hell is a 70mm HE rocket going to even come close to a 155mm HE shell. An M107 produces a 50m kill radius and can cause casualties in excess of 100m.

The amount of shrapnel produced by the 70mm rocket may not be as much, but the rocket certainly contains more Composition B. I'm pretty sure that counts for something.

Especially with an airburst fuze.

[DankE_SPB]

erm

The amount of shrapnel produced by the 70mm rocket may not be as much, but the rocket certainly contains more Composition B. I'm pretty sure that counts for something.

Hydra-70

The M229 HE Warhead is an elongated version of the M151 Warhead and is commonly referred to as the "17 Pounder" warhead. The M229 HE warhead is currently in the inventory. It was designed and developed to increase the lethality and destructiveness of the 10 pound high explosive warhead. The total weight of the loaded, unfuzed warhead is 16.1 pounds (7.3 kg) [other sources report an unfuzed weight of 16.4 pounds] of which 4.8 pounds (2.18 kg) is composite B-4 HE

M795 Projectile 155mm High Explosive HE

The M795 is a 155mm high fragmentation steel (HF1) body projectile filled with 23.8 lb of TNT

http://www.mlmintl.com/155MM-HE.pdf

• TNT: 6.62 kg
• Comp B: 6.985 kg

so your statement is wrong
what might can get close is something similar to S-13(33kg warhead with 7kg of HE ) or even S-25, but the last one has 250kg warhead

Especially with an airburst fuze.

its not obvious tbh, if anything, with airburst shrapnel amount and weight is more important, hence HE weight in warhead usually takes <30% and we dont see thermobaric munitions with airburst fuse


wrt OP, i havent checked helis in 0.9 yet, but almost sure not much changed in general mechanics
what would greatly increase splash effect of hydras is salvo fire and increased deviation for them, this will make it work more as area attack and less as pinpoint HE sniper rifle

[M_Striker]

what would greatly increase splash effect of hydras is salvo fire and increased deviation for them, this will make it work more as area attack and less as pinpoint HE sniper rifle

I agree.

[Pedz]

Is there anything that should be used agaisnt infantry?

The big cannon on the front =]

[Hunt3r]

DankE_SPB;1281773']erm

Hydra-70

M795 Projectile 155mm High Explosive HE

http://www.mlmintl.com/155MM-HE.pdf

so your statement is wrong
what might can get close is something similar to S-13(33kg warhead with 7kg of HE ) or even S-25, but the last one has 250kg warhead


its not obvious tbh, if anything, with airburst shrapnel amount and weight is more important, hence HE weight in warhead usually takes <30% and we dont see thermobaric munitions with airburst fuse


wrt OP, i havent checked helis in 0.9 yet, but almost sure not much changed in general mechanics
what would greatly increase splash effect of hydras is salvo fire and increased deviation for them, this will make it work more as area attack and less as pinpoint HE sniper rifle

AFAIK the deviation is already quite high. Also, I'm dumb and I can't google well enough to save my life.

I still think that the Hydras feel too weak right now though. Upping the wound radius to 75 meters and the kill radius to about 15-20 meters would be the sweet spot.

[sniperrocks]

IMO, CAS is too powerful wouldn't making the splash radius make it more unfair?
it's the worst when a Hydra finds your firebase/hideout >_>

[Hunt3r]

IMO, CAS is too powerful wouldn't making the splash radius make it more unfair?
it's the worst when a Hydra finds your firebase/hideout >_>

I don't know about you, but as it is it's pretty hard for CAS to stay up very often. More often then not the guys shooting those hydras are dead before they can ever even get your firebase.

Putting it under a building of some sort helps though.

[PlatinumA1]

M107 warhead: 13.877 kg

Hydra 70 M151: 3.85 kg

Hydra 70 M229: 7.3 kg

If PR has the smallest hydra warhead, it should do 27% of what a 155mm shell does. If it uses the larger one, it should be 52%.

PR VS BTR-60

Hydra 70: 4 direct hits

155mm: 1 direct hit

Hydra 70: 13 near misses

155mm: 2 near misses

PR is probably closest to the M151. The impact damage is close to reality, but the blast/frag radius and explosion damage is probably smaller than it is in reality. All of these rounds do much less with a contact fuze.

[mangeface]

If people want anit-personnel hydras, then they need to have flechette warheads. The only aircraft I can think of that really uses them IRL that are in the game are Hueys and Blackhawks, but I doubt the Devs want the DAP. So that would limit the factions that have them.