Dilemma about the direction of modification

[snooggums]

Six guys, 99.99% of the time, will beat a lonewolf and take no casualties doing it.

The other .01 percent of the time the single player is jermaindefoe...

Did they swap the squad lead spawn for the rally point spawn back then?

No, it was Rally + SL spawn, SL spawn removed in a later version if I remember correctly. I have memories of Mestia with a rally set outside and the SL hiding in the tower keeping the Brits from taking the first flags and ending their starting bleed...

Per history of PR thread: Rallies introduced in .5, SL spawn removed in .756.

We also had APC spawns for a while, guess what got parked in ditches as a mobile hidden team spawn?

[klonere]

I'm afraid that I misunderstood. I do not have anything against the team play, against the communication in the game, and especially against the Mumble. I just have a question concerning the direction of PR.
I'm singling out certain aspects of gameplay changes that make the game more realistic and command. These aspects make it possible to classify the changes in the game into two groups:

1. Changes that require a higher level of communication in the game (the most vivid recent example of the new RP-FOB system. It's very original, interesting and reasonable, but requires a high level of communication and make a lot difficulties for casual players ).
2. Changes that make the game command and does not require a high level of communication in the game. As an example, can cause a ban on the management of APC by one man, when the player is obvious fact that the impossibility of effectively fighting the same instant shifting it to the gunner, then the driver's seat. In this case, the developers have made the proper level of command in the management of technical means.

I would like to see more changes and improvements, namely 2 groups. But the trend in my opinion tends to 1 group changes, which makes the game not more difficult but more closed and exclusive. Thats what I mean.

To be fair, in the grand scheme of gaming, PR is a niche product. It defines "closed and exclusive" in many ways. While there are new players joining all the time, PR will never have a mass appeal. I am not a clan player, not a compulsive PR'er either. Yet I have no problem playing at all, even with all these supposed new barriers to casual players. All PR takes is a some patience, dedication, common-sense and being an amicable person.

The new spawn system is not perfect, but I love the direction it is taking PR. FOBs now represent real tangible assets, that need to be carefully placed, guarded and used. Before, I always viewed FOBs as disposable unimportant assets, easily supplanted by an Officers rally point. Now they feel like a real base of operations, a hub of transport and supplies. Would you have ever seen a FOB defence squad in any previous version?

To the devs, I would say have a vision and stick with it. Perhaps the greatest example of trying to please two diametrically opposed groups of players (like you have mentioned exist in PR) is WoW. Poor Blizz, for all the money and acclaim they have garnered, are now eternally hated upon by many players for any change. Heroic Raids? The casuals cry foul. The perceived easy to 80? The hardcore decry blizz.

So yeah, basically, I love the way the devs have nurtured PR and progressively improved the game all the time. I don't think any other mod for any game has so changed and improved the base content. It is easily a stand-alone in its own right and its links to BF2 now are really only barriers (apart from potential playerbase).

To the Devs I say; Well done and keep it up.

[karambaitos]

The only problem i have is preformance related with PR 0.9 and that is the only thing that really puts me off, 15 frames in the town on silent eagle CQB is not fun.

I dont know why people deny the existence of VoIP or is it not fancy enough.

Things will get better and better as time goes on and then for PR2 will have perfection
(i am hoping).

P.S. this thread i kinda pointless and full of flame

[goguapsy]

You can use mumble even w/out a mic... And I never had problems with people w/out a mic in my squad (the best teamplayer I've met in PR didn't have one)

[snooggums]

You can use mumble even w/out a mic... And I never had problems with people w/out a mic in my squad (the best teamplayer I've met in PR didn't have one)

Yup, just because you may not be able to transmit VOIP or mumble doesn't mean you can't listen to others talk and use other methods to reply. I had a guy once who would do page up/down on questions when out of combat, and motion up and down for yes and side to side for no when the enemy might hear him use the comms since he had a sleeping kid next to him and a headset on and didn't want to make noise. Very effective team member as he was responsive and used what he had to communicate.

[ANDROMEDA]

klonere
I perfectly understand it all. 0.9 version personally myself very much. I do not quite like what is happening on the servers, unlike what happened in previous versions.
So I called his philosophical question, it is not as simple as it seems.

[Zimmer]

I'm afraid that I misunderstood. I do not have anything against the team play, against the communication in the game, and especially against the Mumble. I just have a question concerning the direction of PR.
I'm singling out certain aspects of gameplay changes that make the game more realistic and command. These aspects make it possible to classify the changes in the game into two groups:

1. Changes that require a higher level of communication in the game (the most vivid recent example of the new RP-FOB system. It's very original, interesting and reasonable, but requires a high level of communication and make a lot difficulties for casual players ).
2. Changes that make the game command and does not require a high level of communication in the game. As an example, can cause a ban on the management of APC by one man, when the player is obvious fact that the impossibility of effectively fighting the same instant shifting it to the gunner, then the driver's seat. In this case, the developers have made the proper level of command in the management of technical means.

I would like to see more changes and improvements, namely 2 groups. But the trend in my opinion tends to 1 group changes, which makes the game not more difficult but more closed and exclusive. Thats what I mean.

Even if I have some posts on the forum been a member for a year or two I am pretty much a causal gamer in PR right now I never find enough time to go on a server and do some whole rounds, but when I do I usually need to squad up with people I dont know never seen in my life and so on. Fact is I can communicate with them perfectly to be a causal gamer does not mean your excused for not having a mic to $5 dollar and speak English, hell I have seen good players who only can text on the squad chat but still get the message through.

As many has said if you cant communicate to other squads you should be punished thats how it works both in real life and in games how much you like it or not PR is a game that focuses on teamwork and teamwork isnt just that a random medic revives you the odd times, PR teamwork is communications and the more the merrier.

From what I have seen in different threads the devs wants to get closer to the exclusive group of players as you call it not your random gamer who only likes some aspects.

And a closing statement:
"In R-devs we trust."

[jermaindefoe]

Yes, it's utter fail. That's probably the biggest reason why PR's playerbase is growing...

this seems to be the point that's being brought up again and again. This is clearly the case and a new "generation" of players are coming to this mod. However talking to lots of people that have been playing this game for longer this new release seems to have been alienating them more and more.

I've heard talk of 4 clans on the verge of collapse purely for the reason that none of the members like the new release and would rather play something else. You might get more "bf2 noobs" as you guys like to put it on the forums but are they really going to contribute to the community as much as the traditional PR playerbase would. I doubt that very much. I would hardly call that a succesful release.

I also saw the point somewhere about how the majority of people on these forums seem to like the new release. That proves nothing tbh as most of the people on these forums are hardcore realism nuts from what i can see. The majority of PR players arent members of these forums and most of the people ive talked to on servers really dont like this new release.

[snooggums]

Then why are they playing on PR servers? Clearly there is something that makes this particular FPS game interesting enough to play when there are many, many others to choose from.

[jermaindefoe]

PR is not a popular FPS lets get that one straight. It's done well and is the most succesful mod probably. There are many other FPS' to choose from which is why not that many people play PR.

[snooggums]

PR is not a popular FPS lets get that one straight. It's done well and is the most succesful mod probably. There are many other FPS' to choose from which is why not that many people play PR.

No one said it was popular, just that it was growing.

Also, I'm only responding so fast because I'm watching the clock before heading home in 10 mins tick tock

[jermaindefoe]

tick tock indeed im off for a shower anyway so continue the discussion tommorow if you want btw everyone sorry for sharing my cleaning habits with you get that image of jermain defoe in the shower out of ur head

[Rudd]

this seems to be the point that's being brought up again and again. This is clearly the case and a new "generation" of players are coming to this mod. However talking to lots of people that have been playing this game for longer this new release seems to have been alienating them more and more.

I've been here a while....




Seriously I'm reading the thread, and I don't see what the problem actually is.

One person has said that .9 requires too much teamwork for casual users, ok that might be true however that was the same in .87 imo, the casual days of PR ended in .8 imo, but if I want casual, I'll play COD4 (not a bad game, just more atuned to a 10minute intense experience)

I'm sorry for the sarcasm of my original post, but I didn't understand how mumble came in to your arguement, as I could replace mumble in your post with teamspeak or vent - the point being that 3rd party VOIP applications have ALWAYS been used my PR players to increase teamwork or fun. Mumble is just the latest incarnation which many of us believe to be superior for pubbing.

The only thing that could possibly be driving people away from .9 are the performance problems
However those of us who have been around a while know that 0.X0 releases tend to have alot of problems with new features beit gameplay or peformance.. .8's deviation caused a small rebellion.


My problems with .9 are Performance, difficulty of 1k Insurgency maps (small map = Blufor transport doesn't mean anything, and thus fighting over 140m of ground becomes too hard since the enemy can walk for a minute from their main to get you) and I'd like more focus on various things such as attack choppers as per many of the changes in teh Combined Arms minimod (can't wait to see what the gang come up with with their .9 compatibility patch) And also I don't like scopes anymore apart from marksmen etc, but thats just my preference.

But I'm having more fun in .9 than ever before because of new features and gameplay tweaks, such as R-DEV Jaymz's movement deviation (which makes deviation alot easier to handle accross the board), new vehicles (finally a good m1a2/1), its just great stuff with very few changes that I dislike.

[L4gi]

The other .01 percent of the time the single player is jermaindefoe...

No, its me on multiplayer.

[AfterDune]

PR was never made for the masses. Most people would rather play an arcade game like COD4 and the likes. The public masses are easily satisfied these days. Give them lovely graphics and a shitload of action and they're fine. PR is different, way different.

this seems to be the point that's being brought up again and again. This is clearly the case and a new "generation" of players are coming to this mod. However talking to lots of people that have been playing this game for longer this new release seems to have been alienating them more and more.

Now, now, "alienating them more and more". PR is evolving constantly. Many people need to get used to a newer version at first, they need to adapt to the changes that were made. This is why our suggestion forum is closed the first two weeks (or so) after each new release, to let people first get used to the game.

PR is getting more away from vBF2 with each release. Some players don't like it anymore, as it's getting too far away from the arcade gamestyle, whilst many others are attracted by it. As PR is evolving, so is the playerbase - which makes perfect sense.

I've heard talk of 4 clans on the verge of collapse purely for the reason that none of the members like the new release and would rather play something else. You might get more "bf2 noobs" as you guys like to put it on the forums but are they really going to contribute to the community as much as the traditional PR playerbase would. I doubt that very much. I would hardly call that a succesful release.

People and clans come and go. It's the same with every game out there. And do keep in mind that PR has been around ever since BF2 came out, so that's quite a few years already. No wonder clans come and go .

But out of interest, which 4 clans are you referring to? And how many members are we talking about?

I also saw the point somewhere about how the majority of people on these forums seem to like the new release. That proves nothing tbh as most of the people on these forums are hardcore realism nuts from what i can see.

I don't like your choice of words here and there. Calling the hardcore players "realism nuts", calling v0.9 a "disaster", I wonder what's next...

most of the people ive talked to on servers really dont like this new release.

How many people did you actually talk to, why were they playing PR when they didn't like it, and didn't they like the release at all, or just parts of it? Were they newcomers to PR, or were they around for a long time already? Etc, etc. "most of the people ive talked to" doesn't say much.

[MadTommy]

The only thing that could possibly be driving people away from .9 are the performance problems

Really?

i'll give you some other reasons... off the top of my head.

Slow gameplay, (walking & waiting)

Elitist community, that often take the game far too seriously.

Sub standard game servers, poor teamwork & gameplay.

Dated game engine.

The Dev team have done an amazing job with PR, but it is so different from BF2 that a lot of the casual gamers from the BF2 community simply do not enjoy PR. I've tried to get mates of mine into PR.. and they simply have not enjoyed it. I understand where the OP is coming from, but i don't agree that it is down to 0.9. It came about a long time ago. And as has been said many many times.. the Dev team are not trying to win a popularity award... and PR will never appeal to the average casual gamer.

[Rudd]

Yeah Tommy, I meant in .9, all that was there before as you said

[CallousDisregard]

As a question of philosophy, I think PR is going in the same direction it always has.
UPWARD !

I'm not a "realism nut" or I would play Armed Assault, but I do like the complexity of the system that PR has created.
I'm a "pubber" and I have little or no problem finding a squad to work with, even when none of them have mumble or can even speak English, but this is a squad based game and the need for lonewolves is very restricted.

I don't really know what you mean by "casual gaming" but Project Reality is not really geared for the 30min run and gun kind of gameplay.

Patience is a learned skill and one that is essential to play PR, just like estimating distance and firing a weapon ( luv the new deviation though TYVM).

If you want to play casually, try running a logistics squad because you are almost always needed ( small Ins maps aside) and you can just jump right into the action.

But if your kill to death ratio is the only measure of your enjoyment of a FPS then, with all due respect, Project Reality might not be the game for you.

Personally, I think of Project Reality as a Real Time Strategy game that I can play as a First Person Shooter.

[ANDROMEDA]

Oh, I forgot to say that I am a fan of hardcore games with gameplay designed to realism, and never never played in vBF2. I played OFP and ArmA1-2. These games have a tremendous interest in the single and COOP mode, but absolutely horrible in multiplayer, so as to lead a successful battle where needed the highest level of communication and interaction between players. If one side are not familiar with each other people, then nothing happens because the game does not have a "tool of coercion" players to a team game. Therefore, under the term "casual players" I mean, not lovers of arcades, and people who accidentally during a routine play on a standard server came to play for one team.

1,5 years ago I learned about PR, bought BF2 and decided to try it. I was struck by how much gameplay can get people to play command. Strongly squad organization, kit limitation, NO solo APC, logistic / building sistem, ROE, classes specification, interaction, etc. It was amazing! The uniqueness of PR for me was just that the gameplay itself makes people play the command, leaving no chance of a lone wolf and FPS fans arcades. PR unite complete strangers on the server simply and easily forcing them to play a command and thus not requiring high-level communication.

But recent changes in the game dramatically alerted me. They send the game to the very hardcore track, which is very difficult and boring to play, if your team is not high-level communication and interaction. PR becomes to closed, clan game. Game in which no Mumble (or even something similar) with interest not to play. I would not want to. Do not want to see this kind of transformation and changes leading to the fact that players need a very long time something to decide and agree to play together.

[Arnoldio]

PR is going better and better...

Id you think its getting worse, you are not made to play PR...