Hammer for taliban,insurgents,miltia,chechnya

[myles]

I was thinking if like all the terriost teams (you know what i mean) could have hammers instead of breaching shot guns to open doors just for realism sake. The hammer would take longer to open the door then a shot gun and can also be used for buliding FBs.

[KingLorre]

I was thinking if like all the terriost teams (you know what i mean) could have hammers instead of breaching shot guns to open doors just for realism sake. The hammer would take longer to open the door then a shot gun and can also be used for buliding FBs.

For realisms sake, if a taliban would want to open a locked door would he really use a Hammer? I'd say theyd use there foot/Bodymass/AK to open up that door.

Honestly tho, i don't think the breaching shotgun should be changed.

[gazzthompson]

I was thinking if like all the terriost teams (you know what i mean) could have hammers instead of breaching shot guns to open doors just for realism sake. The hammer would take longer to open the door then a shot gun and can also be used for buliding FBs.

You have been on these forums long enough to know that if you make a claim based on real life, you should source it otherwise it holds no real weight.

[Spinkyone]

You have been on these forums long enough to know that if you make a claim based on real life, you should source it otherwise it holds no real weight.

Err I'd pass in this case simply because a sledge hammer does have "real weight" and the law of common sense. In terms of opening doors a sledge hammer is probably used more than a shotgun. It is far safer, more predictable and more likely of breaching a door successfully than a shotgun. The only issue is there being limited slots in the kits and the shotgun is useful as a weapon.

[steve_06-07]

That'd be funny seeing OPFOR running around with Sledgehammers smashing brains in (and opening doors/gates I guess)

[myles]

You have been on these forums long enough to know that if you make a claim based on real life, you should source it otherwise it holds no real weight.

Well its just the way that like taliban arent going to buy specific brching slugs to blow open a door there going to find whatever they can find to smash it open. So i taught that maybe they could use a hammer for instance

[Spec]

If anything, they should have keys. The civilian class in insurgency maps for example. But since the door would still looked breached after opening it with a key, and could not be closed again, that'd be pretty pointless. I see the breaching of doors on insurgent side more as a metaphor for opening the door somehow.

[gazzthompson]

Err I'd pass in this case simply because a sledge hammer does have "real weight" and the law of common sense. In terms of opening doors a sledge hammer is probably used more than a shotgun. It is far safer, more predictable and more likely of breaching a door successfully than a shotgun. The only issue is there being limited slots in the kits and the shotgun is useful as a weapon.

"probably" , when making a suggestion based on "realism" its best not to "assume" and source.

[AquaticPenguin]

Well equally I'd argue sledge hammer vs flimsy door may just end up with a sledgehammer shaped hole in the door , it would probably be easier from their point of view to climb over/smash a window if they were trying to get in somewhere

[Spinkyone]

"probably" , when making a suggestion based on "realism" its best not to "assume" and source.

I was in the process of editing my post with extra sources since I suspected as much.

But still a very basic source:
YouTube - Mythbusters - Shootin' Locks

A shotgun can do the job but presents a hazard based on what ever is behind the door etc and the huge amount of flying metal that is generated from shooting a lock and picking chunks of metal out your face doesn't make your day. Do forces have sledgehammers with them? I'd be pretty much certain of that since anywhere you take a large chunks of metal as the only way of dissembling things is with a large hammer (my own experience is with large construction plant and it is necessary). Sledge hammers or bolt cutters at a push are used everywhere and other than an exceptional circumstances, such as positively knowing there's an enemy on the other side of that door, shooting another lump of metal with unknown consequences is a very bad idea and is the last resort and goes against most gun safety practices. I'd be certain (if I'm allowed to use that word) that shooting through a door towards a scared shitless Iraqi family isn't good press.

As for other sources I could pretty much say turn on the news and you'll see police and SWAT forces using sledgehammers of various forms. But the reality if you're after the truth is that the Taliban etc would probably have the key to their cache door...

How not to do it as in know how to use a sledge hammer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCE4mbDm8cs

If you go this far you're doing it wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bqNOqKC018

Other sources: Spinky BSC, SSC University of Common sense.

Google search on Sledgehammers in Iraq for example:

http://www.resourcesforlife.com/library ... swords.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Compo ... 11a.h2.jpg
http://www.blackmarketgold.com/pix/sledge_hammer.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... 2240_n.jpg

Do I need to go as far as listing basic physics or mankind's desire to hit one object with another because you'd go back to the Stone Age there?

[Rissien]

And how often do you see people carrying sledgehammers around in an active hotzone?

[gazzthompson]

I was in the process of editing my post with extra sources since I suspected as much.

But still a very basic source:
YouTube - Mythbusters - Shootin' Locks

A shotgun can do the job but presents a hazard based on what ever is behind the door etc and the huge amount of flying metal that is generated from shooting a lock and picking chunks of metal out your face doesn't make your day. Do forces have sledgehammers with them? I'd be pretty much certain of that since anywhere you take a large chunks of metal as the only way of dissembling things is with a large hammer (my own experience is with large construction plant and it is necessary). Sledge hammers or bolt cutters at a push are used everywhere and other than an exceptional circumstances, such as positively knowing there's an enemy on the other side of that door, shooting another lump of metal with unknown consequences is a very bad idea and is the last resort and goes against most gun safety practices. I'd be certain (if I'm allowed to use that word) that shooting through a door towards a scared shitless Iraqi family isn't good press.

As for other sources I could pretty much say turn on the news and you'll see police and SWAT forces using sledgehammers of various forms. But the reality if you're after the truth is that the Taliban etc would probably have the key to their cache door...

How not to do it as in know how to use a sledge hammer:
YouTube - Not-so-quick Door Breach

If you go this far you're doing it wrong:
YouTube - Whoops Apocalypse - SAS vs Waxworks Museum

Other sources: Spinky BSC, SSC University of Common sense.

Google search on Sledgehammers in Iraq for example:

http://www.resourcesforlife.com/library ... swords.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Compo ... 11a.h2.jpg
http://www.blackmarketgold.com/pix/sledge_hammer.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... 2240_n.jpg

Do I need to go as far as listing basic physics or mankind's desire to hit one object with another because you'd go back to the Stone Age there?

by "weight" i didn't mean physical weight a sledge hammer exerts on a door but the expression "holds no weight in a argument" ie the point of view is not valid as its not sourced, its an expression.

The basis of all arguments, want me to believe you (by that i mean myles) that "taliban,insurgents,miltia,chechnya" regularly use sledge hammers, prove it.

[Spinkyone]

by "weight" i didn't mean physical weight a sledge hammer exerts on a door but the expression "holds no weight in a argument" ie the point of view is not valid as its not sourced.

The basis of all arguments, want me to believe you (by that i mean myles) that "taliban,insurgents,miltia,chechnya" regularly use sledge hammers, prove it.

If you can't spot the pun in the first line then you really need to lighten up.

A sledge hammer is a universal tool used world over, it has no moving parts and is intrinsically reliable. If you can somehow prove that Afghanistan etc is so technologically backwards that it can't manage a few pounds of metal attached to a stick then I'd retract my statements. I'd imagine as previously stated that insurgents would use keys on a daily basis but sadly I can't find a specification relating to keys.

[gazzthompson]

its not my place to prove anything, when some one claims "add this because its realistic", well they better say why its realistic. i dont see what your point is, every single suggestion post should come with a source otherwise its pointless.

[Kirra]

I was in the process of editing my post with extra sources since I suspected as much.

But still a very basic source:
YouTube - Mythbusters - Shootin' Locks

A shotgun can do the job but presents a hazard based on what ever is behind the door etc and the huge amount of flying metal that is generated from shooting a lock and picking chunks of metal out your face doesn't make your day. Do forces have sledgehammers with them? I'd be pretty much certain of that since anywhere you take a large chunks of metal as the only way of dissembling things is with a large hammer (my own experience is with large construction plant and it is necessary). Sledge hammers or bolt cutters at a push are used everywhere and other than an exceptional circumstances, such as positively knowing there's an enemy on the other side of that door, shooting another lump of metal with unknown consequences is a very bad idea and is the last resort and goes against most gun safety practices. I'd be certain (if I'm allowed to use that word) that shooting through a door towards a scared shitless Iraqi family isn't good press.

As for other sources I could pretty much say turn on the news and you'll see police and SWAT forces using sledgehammers of various forms. But the reality if you're after the truth is that the Taliban etc would probably have the key to their cache door...

How not to do it as in know how to use a sledge hammer:
YouTube - Not-so-quick Door Breach

If you go this far you're doing it wrong:
YouTube - Whoops Apocalypse - SAS vs Waxworks Museum

Other sources: Spinky BSC, SSC University of Common sense.

Google search on Sledgehammers in Iraq for example:

http://www.resourcesforlife.com/library ... swords.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Compo ... 11a.h2.jpg
http://www.blackmarketgold.com/pix/sledge_hammer.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... 2240_n.jpg

Do I need to go as far as listing basic physics or mankind's desire to hit one object with another because you'd go back to the Stone Age there?

[Spinkyone]

its not my place to prove anything, when some one claims "add this because its realistic", well they better say why its realistic. i dont see what your point is, every single suggestion post should come with a source otherwise its pointless.

The argument is that a sledgehammer is in fact very useful for breaching a door and that compared to other suggestions such as giving the insurgents tandem warheads or other RPG models the technology involved is basic at best. This is in essence the crux of bureaucratic nonsense which this forum has become full of late and has only lost focus on reality.

It adds in game variety which is both interesting and comical in watching an insurgent hammer his hideout together and I dare not think of the tears you shed when seeing the insurgents use a western entrenching tool. If it will help you sleep at night I'll go as far as modelling it myself so you needn't worry about it.

[Startrekern]

When I first saw this thread title, I was like "Yeah!! Hammers to replace shovels for Ins/Taliban since their hideouts are WOODEN? Epic!" .. ..

And then I realized that's not what it was about at all.

[Arnoldio]

Left click with key on the door knob, "shoots" it, door opens, right click repairs it, doors return to original state.

Dont know if possible...

[privetB]

[...] Do forces have sledgehammers with them?[...]

I've seen a documentary a few years ago, where US troops (no special forces) use mini battering rams to break doors. Like this one:


However even if it is realistic for insurgents and terrorists to use sledge hammers, I don't see a reason why the DEVs should waste their time modelling it. If you think a sledge hammer is necessery then make one, the DEVs have enough to do with important things.

[masterceo]

The argument is that a sledgehammer is in fact very useful for breaching a door and that compared to other suggestions such as giving the insurgents tandem warheads or other RPG models the technology involved is basic at best. This is in essence the crux of bureaucratic nonsense which this forum has become full of late and has only lost focus on reality.

It adds in game variety which is both interesting and comical in watching an insurgent hammer his hideout together and I dare not think of the tears you shed when seeing the insurgents use a western entrenching tool. If it will help you sleep at night I'll go as far as modelling it myself so you needn't worry about it.

I believe gazz wants to know if insurgents use sledgehammers in reality, because if there are no sources that say so, why bothering implementing this suggestion in the first place? I personally never saw a photo or read an article on insurgents using sledgehammers, why would they carry a heavy hammer if they fight on a "hit and run" principle?