little things

[notmyingamename]

i have some things i wish to discuss, but if they belong in the "suggestion" board or deleted/ put elsewhere, then so be it.

project reality is, and has been for some time now, one of my all-time favorite gaming experiences. i began playing in 2006. it was a refreshing way to approach the generic arcade shoot and scoot that we were all accustomed to. the rounds were five times longer than anything else out there... the teamplay was necessary and evident... the coordination was engaging, and kept me coming back for more.
so what has changed? what, between now and then, has me so pissed off before the end of each round? why do i feel like throwing my coffee through the window as children laugh and skip by? it wasn't always this way friends. i used to be a happy player. i'd end a round with a sense of something that just isn't attainable any longer, i personally believe, or is so hard to find that it may as well be lost.

rally points- a rally point signal, when indicated by your squad leader, is a signal that defines where your squad should meet in the event that you become scattered during a firefight. in the past, a squad in pr would advance to a point, "pop a rally," and move into the objective. for those who were not around, let me describe what was wrong with the system first- rp's were exploitable. oh so exploitable. you could jump, and drop them during a slide into the base of a tree for concealment. you could crawl beneath stairs and corner yourself as to hide it inside of walls, or statics. there were so many ways to make an rp a badass ninja spawn, which was only given away by that bzz fzzz szzz radio shit you hear when nearby. that exploitive style was a bad thing, of course.

why were rally's good, you might be asking? they were good because they kept the pace of combat. they allowed a squad which had crossed through the shit and into the fire a chance to continue their assault. it gave them a certain fighting chance that kept my attention. what doesn't keep my attention- walking 600 god forsaken meters only to get tk'd by an apc that's sitting where i spawned in 10 minutes ago. an explitive resonates in my walls. you can hear it echoed when the wind is just so, as its been said so often here at my pc.

how i think the system should change- a firebase is a base of local operations. a point from which your squad deploys. you begin at central operations, you establish a defensive (or offensive) fob, and you move the hell out unless you plan to sit on your assets or protect it from assault. so then, a rally point is the continuation of this flow- a rally point should be deployable within a certain range of an established fob. your squad leader designates a point to "rally" up when the bullets begin to fly and heads begin to roll. and by god... they should last longer than a minute. this isn't my mod, but it is the mod i love to play, so please take this bit here as genuine critique- 60 seconds is such an arbitrary amount of time that it may as well have been 58 seconds, or 49 or 63. a minute itself, no matter how you cut it, is too short, regardless. having the constrictions in place as we see in today's incarnation undermines the rp's original intention, and so may as well not exist at all. it's no longer a point where your squad "rallies." it's broke. squad vs squad combat was what made this mod fun for myself to begin with. flanking and hunting rallies was what separated the wins from the losses, and i dearly miss those fights.
i've included a picture. it's not necessary, but it's simple. plus, presentations are always better with a visual aid.

fall damage- it's been around forever, but i don't believe that i'll ever accept it. a twelve year old can handle more acrobatics than my simulated battle-hardened veteran. there's no reason a 6 foot drop should put me into bleed. there's no reason i need to hear a man choking in his deaththroes for 2 minutes or more after a twisted ankle anyhow. bleeding out implies that you've sustained a wound that has caused hemorrhaging. ie- getting shot. can it not be changed so that fall just takes a certain % based on height or momentum, and leaves it be?

deviation- you round a building in the city, crouched and gun on hand. there, at the end of this 50m alleyway, is your enemy. his eyes are facing west, binocs out and scanning for hostiles. he's standing up, his gun is shouldered. you fall into prone, pull that stock to your cheek and place your sights to his temple. you wait, knowing that project reality has something called deviation, and requires a certain amount of patience. your bullet emerges, propelled by the gas expanded in a controlled explosion. it's traveling at maximum awesome. he's still looking west, unaware of his imminent fate. your bullet, however, does not give a shit. it slides awkwardly away, fumbling retardedly into a brick 5 meters behind your mark. binocs still in hand, your target dolpin dives, rolling here and there, screaming to his god for forgiveness. ug

look- i know that all this has been discussed to death, but these things are simple things. they are the simple aspects of project reality that have me "so pissed off before the end of each round," as i stated before. their realistic qualities are questionable at best. i love this mod. my girlfriend hates it passionately. she hates everything about pr, and that should tell you how good of a job you devs have done, and the quality of the players you have attracted and i play with everyday. as pr evolves, i'd like to see less punishment, and more twitch. by punishment, i mean not using my coffee mug to afk march while i use the restroom. by twitch, i mean that pulling your shotgun out means it's already charged and ready to fire when you let go of that rope. why do i have to "chk-chk" this thing every time it sees daylight? little things. thanks for reading. haters gonna hate.

[dtacs]

Huge rant thread #849575285, but I agree with everything that you said.

Dolphin diving is still VERY effective. I headshotted a guy at about 30m away by doing it with one shot.

The RP thing pisses me off the most, I remember a dev saying that it shouldn't be used as a 'siege tool' which it was before the change. However now, I find myself as an SL simply having to fall back after my assault fails to retry. Is that not a siege tool as well?

[Conman51]

why do i have to "chk-chk" this thing every time it sees daylight? little things. thanks for reading. haters gonna hate.

ill only address this part for now, other people can handle the rest

its not possible, which means every time you pull out a gun, because of the BF2 engine, there will always need to be the same old redeploy animation, the Pr devs cant change it

[gazzthompson]

LONG RANT ABOUT DEVIATION

Dont go prone. i still feel prone diving has been effectively killed off, ive been killed once by it but he killed me from about 1m away so couldnt really miss.

[notmyingamename]

ill only address this part for now, other people can handle the rest

its not possible, which means every time you pull out a gun, because of the BF2 engine, there will always need to be the same old redeploy animation, the Pr devs cant change it

then why include it at all? why not just draw your gun, assuming it's charged. you charge your weapon when you leave a base. do you mean that draw time is hardcoded?

about dolphindiving- the problem isn't so much the resulting deviation. it's the time required to zero. i think it's excessive. the twitch is removed... i don't like it but i understand it. how realistic, however, is it to take 4-5 seconds to zero a target 50m downrange?

[Conman51]

then why include it at all? why not just draw your gun, assuming it's charged. you charge your weapon when you leave a base. do you mean that draw time is hardcoded?

about dolphindiving- the problem isn't so much the resulting deviation. it's the time required to zero. i think it's excessive. the twitch is removed... i don't like it but i understand it. how realistic, however, is it to take 4-5 seconds to zero a target 50m downrange?

to slow game play down

[notmyingamename]

to slow game play down

that must be where you and i disagree. game play is slow enough, in my opinion. maybe it's my time to say goodbye then. perhaps i've just reached the slow threshold.

i suppose it could be said that my gripe is with the stacking of gameplay slowing mechanisms? they're stacked too high anymore for my enjoyment.

[dtacs]

Are you constantly going grunt? Try something else, specialize in armor or choppers or something. Thats what alot of people do when they get bored with PR.

[motherdear]

however, is it to take 4-5 seconds to zero a target 50m downrange?

i have been shoooting for quite a few years, and although you can squeeze off shots after 2 sec it is not realistic in a combat environment. you got HUGE factors such as fatigue, adrenaline etc that makes it much much harder to do it so quick. ontop of that you got wind and other ballistics that have an effect. and the worst of it all is that we can not simulate this, i have never seen a guy standing up being able to hold their gun as still as we do in project reality.
also you don't need 4-5 seconds to zero a target at that range you can do it much quicker and then utilize the 2 sec rule before your deviation is normal again.

[notmyingamename]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]motherdear;1298916']i have been shoooting for quite a few years, and although you can squeeze off shots after 2 sec it is not realistic in a combat environment. you got HUGE factors such as fatigue, adrenaline etc that makes it much much harder to do it so quick. ontop of that you got wind and other ballistics that have an effect. and the worst of it all is that we can not simulate this, i have never seen a guy standing up being able to hold their gun as still as we do in project reality.
also you don't need 4-5 seconds to zero a target at that range you can do it much quicker and then utilize the 2 sec rule before your deviation is normal again.[/quote]

i understand that reasoning. i couldn't call anyone a bad shot if they're landing on target, regardless of the time it took between sighting and trigger squeeze.

what i see, however, is my sights on someones forehead and my bullets landing anywhere but. if shooting causes deviation, it would be more practical to ONLY have your sights kick around, as opposed to an invisible cone that tightens over time. i think rainbow six on n64 was the first time i encountered this particular approach to deviation in a game, and honestly- it's always been something which i've opposed. that's 11 solid years of not liking something. my reflex is my advantage. with the aforementioned system, my reflex is nulled to an aggravating level, leveling the field with an opponent who's best advantage is my hindrance. i see what you are saying though, and it's a practical way to account for factors that cannot be replicated in game.

[quote="dtacs""]Are you constantly going grunt? Try something else, specialize in armor or choppers or something. Thats what alot of people do when they get bored with PR.[/quote]

i was a vanilla jetwhore, designated jet guy on local lan, a-10 basrah whore back when, trans/atk helo pilot since ever- in 6 years, my flying time between pr and original (if i actually knew it), would be shameful if said aloud. tanks and apcs just aren't my tea.

[Dev1200]

IMO, join a realistic server, IE Project Mumble/Tactical Gamer. You get "usually" better players, and lots of them have skill.


Also, understand that you don't ever NEED to walk anywhere in PR. Just call for a heli or APC.

[motherdear]

it would be more practical to ONLY have your sights kick around, as opposed to an invisible cone that tightens over time.

this is possible in the bf2142 engine and is a great feature called sway, you can put a sway on the weapons in bf2, but that sway will only be animated and won't have any impact on the bullet, so the only real way we can simulate this stuff is sadly through the cone model.

PR:ARMA2 will have (as far as i know) the proper ballistics and sway and the shooting mechanics will be much closer to what we want.

[gazzthompson]

what i see, however, is my sights on someones forehead and my bullets landing anywhere but. if shooting causes deviation, it would be more practical to ONLY have your sights kick around, as opposed to an invisible cone that tightens over time. i think rainbow six on n64 was the first time i encountered this particular approach to deviation in a game, and honestly- it's always been something which i've opposed. that's 11 solid years of not liking something. my reflex is my advantage. with the aforementioned system, my reflex is nulled to an aggravating level, leveling the field with an opponent who's best advantage is my hindrance. i see what you are saying though, and it's a practical way to account for factors that cannot be replicated in game.

as i said, dont go prone your deviation will go sky high. its to get rid of prone spamming which is stupid and unrealistic and IMO has worked. (tho people still do it, but i kill them with ease)

[notmyingamename]

IMO, join a realistic server, IE Project Mumble/Tactical Gamer. You get "usually" better players, and lots of them have skill.


Also, understand that you don't ever NEED to walk anywhere in PR. Just call for a heli or APC.

i don't want to sound rude, but those are very generic replies. i'm not sure if you're trolling me or not. i say that because every other thread in suggestions has a comment like yours, and it just seems like those statements are implied. of course you can call an apc or a heli rather than walk. of course the players you game with impact your experience.

i'm sorry, but these aren't the answers to the questions i have. my issues relate to how the game has progressed between then and now. those are simple truths you've pointed out. thanks though, input appreciated.

this is possible in the bf2142 engine and is a great feature called sway, you can put a sway on the weapons in bf2, but that sway will only be animated and won't have any impact on the bullet, so the only real way we can simulate this stuff is sadly through the cone model.

PR:ARMA2 will have (as far as i know) the proper ballistics and sway and the shooting mechanics will be much closer to what we want.

thankyou. i've always wondered why the cone was chosen. it's too bad that you guys haven't been given free reign to bring something to life from start to end. i truly look forward to seeing pr2.

[iAllex]

It seems to me that you are oveplaying PR. It's a human characteristic, everithing done excessivly leads to "bordem"(you will have to excuse me for not knowing the exact term) of the respectiv thing.
I suggest playing a "hyped" game. For example, I balance my PR with some COD: Modern Warfare 2, to satisfy my need for excessive action( my brain shuts down and I play mostly on instincts ).

[TII]

I agree with most of what the OP said. I've played PR since the minimod, but the amount of walking is getting tiring, as is playing for two hours and getting a whopping 5 kills as a grunt. Lets face it, we play war games to try to kill the other guy, not run a marathon, or maybe that's just me.

I think the deviation is a but much as well. Yes it takes time to get accurate aim IRL, but people also don't run around in circles, and backwards like spazzed out, headless chickens like they do in game. Same goes for crazy vehicle drivers when you're trying to hit them with a LAT.

[gazzthompson]

I agree with most of what the OP said. I've played PR since the minimod, but the amount of walking is getting tiring, as is playing for two hours and getting a whopping 5 kills as a grunt.

your doing it wrong, i get about 12+ kills on average and i SL so my SM's normally get a few more. plenty of action.

[TII]

your doing it wrong, i get about 12+ kills on average and i SL so my SM's normally get a few more. plenty of action.

I usually play as medic though, since no one else ever seems to want to.

[Nehil]

I'd just like to adress the fall damage issue;

A soldier would weigh about 160-200 pounds, I'm guessing. Then add all the equipment. Guessing that weighs about 60-100 pounds, depending on the role of the soldier.

So, now you go out into the hills (simulate Korengal Valley), get your gear, and jump from about 6 ft height onto uneven ground. Perhaps land on one foot only. I'm not a doctor, but a broken femur might be the result. You won't bleed out, but you won't be combat effective. Bleeding out in PR is just a compromise. You need medical treatment ASAP.

In my point of view, the current system is fine.

No rage or flame. I can understand that fall damage pisses you off, it pisses me off too. But then again, getting shot and dying does that to you too =D

[v1rotate]

IMHO the new rally system isn't as great as the old one used to be. I'm not saying that one didn't have its flaws either.

A rally is a place where assaults can be staged or people can fall back if needed. Right now you just set a rally down so a guy or two can spawn in and you push forward. If you're in trouble, you don't really have a set area to fallback to and most squads just continue to keep fighting until they kill the enemy or get killed. If you die, you have to start back in the main or at an FOB no where near your objective because the rally disappears after one minute.

Suggestion: Have a rally that permanently stays, unless overrun/destroyed, but have only one rally. You can't just set rally after rally, so make sure you place one in a strategic location. If another is going to be set, it has to be rearmed like the current rally system. It would also eliminate those long boring walks where you hold w and press k to keep auto walking.

Maybe a possible test patch to see how that would work?