Settle Time (of assault rifles)

[iAllex]

From what I know, iron sight/red dot weapons and scope/optics have the same deviation time settle. I usualy use iron sight/red dot because I don't realy feel comfortable with the curent scope sistem(thank God that Chuch is working on 3D scopes), even so the rules are the same.
I can't say I have this problems in CQB or at range, and I play COD MW2 and I should feel if weapons in PR are to off.

Few iron sight/red dot tips:
-Anti-aliasing is a MUST! 4x at least. Lower other settings, as you need straight lines at distances.
-Let your sq mates engage ranged targets as you will only be able to surpress them, but, with some training you will manage to kill enemyes at 200m ++ ... like me .(don't be cheap on bullets)
-In CQB move while crouching, as you will move faster than standing.
-Use an Ak74 . Can't go wrong with that weapon.

[gazzthompson]

myself and all of my friends are able to put down a "precise" (torso) shot at a range of 50 meters in less than 3 seconds,.

This is pretty much possible in game.

[Skull]

This is pretty much possible in game.

it is "pretty much" possible, which means 50% shots actually hit the torso, some the arms/head and some miss, but IRL i can do that by a 99% chance and im not a trained soldier, neither trained on that weapon.
besides, i said 3 seconds is the way maximum for a not trained person...

[Megagoth1702]

Sorry to name the lame argument, but "it is a game" and balance is an important thing.#


Deviation always was in the modern world of PR and with the 5sec they reduced it from the 8.

Also I love that you can make short 1sec movement and wait 1sec to get full aim.



I am very fine with the system as it is.



And by the way... Reading about pronediving with an undeployed PKM spreaying around and not hitting things? It was probably me who shot you because usually I win against pronedivers.


Make a test: run around for 5 seconds and insta-prone, instantly start shooting single shots at a wall 50m away from you.

Then run around for 5 seconds and go CROUCH - start shooting.

See the difference? Fluid and nice, love it!

[gazzthompson]

it is "pretty much" possible, which means 50% shots actually hit the torso, some the arms/head and some miss, but IRL i can do that by a 99% chance and im not a trained soldier, neither trained on that weapon.
besides, i said 3 seconds is the way maximum for a not trained person...

by pretty much, i would guess about 85% + . The deviation dose need tweaking , but its nowhere near as bad as you make it out.

[Skull]

i never talked about the time you have to wait after going prone, i like those ~4.5 secs, absoluty fine. im talking about the settle time when standin or more likely go crouch.
on the balancing/gameplay argument:
most of you will say its not that way, but in most situation the rifleman is just too weak.
for example, when youre 20 meters away from a technical with a manned .50, youre behind a little wall, so got pretty much the same cover as the gunner. the gunner just has to aim for you and spray, you have to wait 2-3 seconds to get him down, plus aiming. so in most of the situations the technical gunner will win. irl its mostly like a 50-50 chance.
another situation is - how paradox it might sound - two infantry men meeting each other on an open field about 30-40 meters away from each other. trained soldiers - irl - would aim and shoot 2-3 shots. in pr the one just spraying the whole mag into the direction of the enemy tends to win.
i could go on like this for some time...

[AquaticPenguin]

i was in the austrian army, same as a lot of my friends and i know guys who have been there for more than 3 years. we have the steyr aug, which has optics with 1.5 times zoom and myself and all of my friends are able to put down a "precise" (torso) shot at a range of 50 meters in less than 3 seconds

My trouble with this statement is that you can load it to prove any point you like. I'm not calling you a liar but for all anyone else knows you could have said "shot at a range of 50 meters in less than 1.5 seconds" and it would appear just as valid.

Equally in game at the moment it is near perfect if you just wait 3 seconds. And even trained soldiers will get weary, be pumped with adrenaline. It's a topic that you can't really back up with evidence, all I know is that I like the deviation at the moment, it's much more fluent than in previous versions and you can actually move without having the deviation cripple you.

[GrimSoldier]

Red dot and ironsights seem to have less then acog, the acog is just terrible and takes pretty much no matter how long you it will never shoot where you want it to. That is just me but for real i have waited up to 15 seconds to see if it will actually settle and the bullet goes 2m the other direction no matter what stance im in.

[AquaticPenguin]

Red dot and ironsights seem to have less then acog, the acog is just terrible and takes pretty much no matter how long you it will never shoot where you want it to.

IIRC the stats for the deviations of ACOGs/Aimpoints and Ironsights are identical. It's just the scopes are zoomed and so it feels much less accurate.

That is just me but for real i have waited up to 15 seconds to see if it will actually settle and the bullet goes 2m the other direction no matter what stance im in.

Yes well that just plain can't happen unless you've been flailing/moving around

when youre 20 meters away from a technical with a manned .50, youre behind a little wall, so got pretty much the same cover as the gunner. the gunner just has to aim for you and spray, you have to wait 2-3 seconds to get him down, plus aiming. so in most of the situations the technical gunner will win. irl its mostly like a 50-50 chance.

Some mild LMG style shake on the .50s would make them a bit less prevailent at close range as someone suggested in another thread. Also, you shouldn't expect to beat a guy with a full auto heavy machine gun, maybe You could throw a nade? Or ask for a team mate to help/LAT it. Hell why are you even standing up in front of a .50 cal that's already facing you anyway.

[tehb2]

I like how the weapon characteristics have changed. They are more accurate and steady, and I don't feel the settle time is too drastic. Of course I want to get a good shot off as fast as possible, especially in close range, but if you just count "one-one-thousand" it should settled. Time slows when you see your target, so it seems like a long time when its not. Just relax, aim, fire. Better yet, anticipate so you are the first one to get zeroed in and fire first.

I'll admit. There have been times when the gun should have settled, but hit wide, and not just missing the target, but hitting an obstacle 10m away and a few feet to the side of where I'm aiming. That is a bit much. I've almost been shot by my brother's player when he was no more than 10ft (notice its not meters this time) behind me, prone, and shooting to my right around a container. He did some steady single shots, not fast if you ask me, but his shots were hitting above my head against the container right in front of him. I don't think I can attribute that to bad aim.

Being in the military, with some practice you should be able to hit a silhouette sized target at 25m the instant you have a sight picture, with a few quick follow up shots on target as well (not bullseye, but on body). Further out (up to 50m) the same time should get the first shot to hit, but anything after will need a second. Out to maybe 200m there should it should only take 2 or 3 seconds to settle straight.**

That's my view of realistic timing, and how the weapons in this game work, but overall I was playing just last night, which had been the first time in a while, and I was pretty pleased. I think the steady aim and overall accuracy sometimes makes up for the deviation and settle times. With smart play, some practice, and maybe just a bit of luck when you shoot for your survival I think that the better player will win out the majority of the time.

All I ask for is MORE GRENADES! I use up my standard 2 quickly cause they are so useful.


**Now when I mention on target, I mean hitting the body. Getting a headshot like that only happens in Call of Duty or by a real professional. In this game, and often in life, if you are going that quickly sometimes you just want to put lead downrange and into somebody before anything else.

[Jigsaw]

I very much like the new deviation model, far better than in any previous version and I never have any problems hitting my targets. Be patient, don't try to be rambo and crouch instead of falling prone all the time and you'll be fine. Then again I didn't have any problems with it before either.

Also take ironsights at every opportunity. I can guarantee that 99% of the most dangerous and life threatening contacts you will get in PR will be at less than 100m, at which point you stand a far greater chance of winning a firefight if you have irons.

[Hunt3r]

I thought that ACOGs are supposed to be all ranges, 0m to 400m. It sure would be nice to have those 3D ACOGs for some delicious CQC...

[Bellator]

When you start missing a lot with your assault rifle, just settle down and generally slow down. Don't play the game hectically and crouch whenever you feel that the enemy about to confront you soon.

[SnipeHunt]

Now I don't even bother waiting for settle at close ranges, I just unload the whole mag at them and hopefully hit them by possibility.

Yup, this is my method too. if the bullets don't hit them hopefully the suppression effect will disorient them long enough to get a few good bullets in before the mag goes empty.

[Megagoth1702]

Go to Ramiel -> there is a shooting range (up to 70m). Good way to find out how to shoot effectively.

[SnipeHunt]

Go to Ramiel -> there is a shooting range (up to 70m). Good way to find out how to shoot effectively.

Kozelsk has a nice shooting range too.

[sickly]

i know the feeling of annoyance when you miss at close range. but it ultimately comes down to us having decided that even though the engine does not feature fatique, wind, drag, gravity and weapon sway it should not mean that you should be able to place a shot in no time at far ranges.
you can not within 2 seconds expect to hit an enemy dead on at far ranges. sadly we can not have different deviation rules for ranges and neither can we have any of the stuff i said about (which doesn't matter in cqb)
but do you want very good cqb and then have really bad long range combat, or a mix of the two where the overall combat is more realistic, but sacrificing a bit on the cqb side.
if we could have fatigue, wind and all that stuff i assure you that we would have both things properly done, but at the moment it is just not possible without turning this game into another game with arcade qcb characteristics

This is a highly unrealistic aspect of PR infantry combat, so it'd be great to find some solution to it.

The problem as I understand it is that if you lower the maximum deviation from movement so that you can hit something with any consistency at close-range without using the sights, then zoomed view (i.e. with sights) gets too accurate (i.e. the difference between the settled deviation and peak deviation is very small) and that is equally unrealistic.

Since PR engagements tend to be at longer ranges than those of vBF2, it makes sense to give long-range priority.




PR's new deviation while moving is actually not that different from vanilla BF2 now, except in settle time. Nevertheless, thought I'd try doing as people have suggested.


PR's M16A2

rem ---BeginComp:SoldierDeviationComp ---
rem 556 Optical Sight Standard Accuracy Assault Rifle
ObjectTemplate.createComponent SoldierDeviationComp
ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev .333
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setFireDev 1.4 .7 .023
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setTurnDev 2 .15 .15 .05
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setSpeedDev 3 .02 .02 .02
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setMiscDev 20 20 .15
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 1.5
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 1.0
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 0.9
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom .3
rem ---EndComp ---


Made a few adjustments:

rem ---BeginComp:SoldierDeviationComp ---
rem 556 Optical Sight Standard Accuracy Assault Rifle
ObjectTemplate.createComponent SoldierDeviationComp
ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev .333
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setFireDev 1.4 .2 .023
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setTurnDev 2 .15 .2 .04
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setSpeedDev 2 .02 .02 .03
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setMiscDev 20 20 .15
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 1.5
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 1.0
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 0.9
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom .3
rem ---EndComp ---

- Fire deviation increment lowered , decreasing penalty for non-single fire shooting (this is important for people who can't always make the first shot count--also makes real suppression more effective).
- Turn deviation settle time isn't quite as fast so you feel it more when aiming.
- Speed (i.e. move) deviation decreased so very close targets can be hit a bit more consistently and sped up settle time so run-stop-shoot can work effectively, without making it rambo-style run n' gun or allowing for quick long-range hits.

You still blast away at targets within 5m and hit nothing but air when moving and not using sights...just a little less so.

[Bringerof_D]

Yes well that just plain can't happen unless you've been flailing/moving around

not necessarily (sorta off topic but fun story). one time on Yamalia i was using the Auto Rifleman kit went prone behind a tree, waited 6 seconds and fired...for what ever reason i guess it was a glitch my shots hit the ground in front of me and went of flying anywhere on a 45 degree angle. i waited again thinking ok maybe i counted too quickly...nope same deal. i crawled around a bit and tried again, same thing. so i stood up and got back down, well that fixed it. << in this time 2 enemy squads had advanced past my position and one squad crossed back. they were maybe 30-50 meters out and none of them noticed my gunfire

[LithiumFox]

it is "pretty much" possible, which means 50% shots actually hit the torso, some the arms/head and some miss, but IRL i can do that by a 99% chance and im not a trained soldier, neither trained on that weapon.
besides, i said 3 seconds is the way maximum for a not trained person...

Sadly I can't even make a reasonable argument against a guy who's been on the forum since a month ago. If you wanna complain go find an older version of PR (like .7/. and then complain. I mean... REALLY. Firefights lasted FOREVER in those version. And I actually kind of miss it...

It's not a matter of whether or not in a none stressful situation you can hit a torso or not. It's a matter of if through running so much, jumping so much, yelling so much, dealing with whether and explosions, watching your comrades die, and all this other stuff if you are able to hit an enemy within 2 seconds.

You MIGHT be a train soldier, but you ARE human, and you DO have something called STRESS.

Is it possible to make a stress meter? Like if grenades and bullets go off so much nearby you get "stressed" and THEN deviation kicks in? That would be better. =)