Regarding the infantry layer

[google]

As most people are aware, the 16 layer (or infantry only layer) is there to provide a different experience on some of the more asset heavy maps. My only problem is that most of these still have IFVs (Not in the traditional sense, but you know what I mean). This really frustrates me as these vehicles just replace the assets on the map. Infantry layers should really only have infantry vs infantry fights.

That being said, some of the "IFVs" such as Humvees aren't so bad. However, vehicles such as the BRDM and VN3 are problematic. Seeing as they have zoom, they basically become mini-tanks. A specific map on which this is a problem is Silent Eagle. I wouldn't even mind so much if the Russian Team only had 1 or 2 BRDMs, but they get so darn many. So basically, I'm asking that any vehicle with a gun mounted on it be removed from the 16 layers. Or at least remove the ones with zoom or anything stronger than a .50 cal.

[Jigsaw]

Agree with that. Infantry only layers should be infantry and light transport vehicles, nothing else.

On this point though I think that infantry only should probably be removed from the insurgency game mode, or at least a different set of winning conditions introduced on insurgency maps (like less caches necessary to win). The BLUFOR team have all those assets on the normal layers for a reason...

[BabylonCome]

Do you mean the standard infantry layout or the skirmish infantry layout?

[dtacs]

Agreed. The infantry layer of Kashan for example is a bit too easy for the MEC. The amount of BRDM's they get causes the choppers to have a really hard time getting supplies and troops into bunkers, plus the 14.5mm takes a few bursts into the engine block of a Humvee to destroy it.

Talking about this layer:

[[uBp]Irish]

The amount of BRDM's they get causes the choppers to have a really hard time getting supplies and troops into bunkers

Then the pilots that are flying are not flying effectively. If the place is hot...don't fly in and expect to live. The game is about Teamwork for a reason. If the squad needs a FOB than its there job to clear the area so its good for the helo to make an approach.

[Tim270]

The introduction of TOW's should even this out a little, but yes it was always really hard for US on that Kashan layer simply as the main mode of transportation would die so easily.

[Rissien]

Theres a difference between skirmish and Infantry layouts. You want no vehicles, go skirmish. Cant expect to play a massive map like kashan just on foot can you? and Humvees can kill a BDRM just as easily as a BDRM can kill them, just the matter they have a zoom so you have to work around that.

[Drunkenup]

H[=ElvishKnight;1308065']Theres a difference between skirmish and Infantry layouts. You want no vehicles, go skirmish. Cant expect to play a massive map like kashan just on foot can you? and Humvees can kill a BDRM just as easily as a BDRM can kill them, just the matter they have a zoom so you have to work around that.

BRDMs are crew manned vehicles right? Then give the US Army Strykers. The Stryker is a tad bit more armored, but only has a single M2 .50 compared to the 14.5+7.62.

[Rudd]

I actually disagree, I prefer infantry layers to be more infantry friendly, though not simple infantry

e.g. imo Kashan should be BRDMs + trucks Vs a couple of strykers + humvees / a mix of CROWs and no crows hummers

Though I agree that there should be only enough vehicles to provide 32-40 transport slots and NO more.

[snooggums]

Agree with that. Infantry only layers should be infantry and light transport vehicles, nothing else.

On this point though I think that infantry only should probably be removed from the insurgency game mode, or at least a different set of winning conditions introduced on insurgency maps (like less caches necessary to win). The BLUFOR team have all those assets on the normal layers for a reason...

In my experience the BluFor are more likely to win Insurgency 16 layer because they don't lose all their tickets in assets and infantry are more likely to get revived, conserving tickets further. It also puts more boots in the area to clear a cache location which is rarely possible with armor because the focus becomes keeping the armor alive and long distance coverage is not very effective if the Insurgents simply stay out of sight.

The BRDM matchup with humvees is terrible, the BRDM requires a crew and is a very light tank. The Humvee can transport more and can be crewed by anyone. I guess it is assymetrical, but the BRDM side pretty much has to stay in the BRDMs because they don't have enough transport for infantry squads.

[hotfranc]

i agree too

[google]

H[=ElvishKnight;1308065']Theres a difference between skirmish and Infantry layouts. You want no vehicles, go skirmish. Cant expect to play a massive map like kashan just on foot can you?

I never suggested the removal of transport trucks or helicopters... Besides, Skirmish maps are too cramped for normal 32 v 32 gameplay.

H[=ElvishKnight;1308065']and Humvees can kill a BDRM just as easily as a BDRM can kill them

This is a load of ****... BRDMs have 4x Zoom, can easily both kill the gunner and driver, and has the same AP cannon that the BTR60 has. Humvees can't shoot out any of the BRDMs crew, has to rely on grungy ironsights, and has a .50 cal as opposed to an AP cannon.

I actually disagree, I prefer infantry layers to be more infantry friendly, though not simple infantry

e.g. imo Kashan should be BRDMs + trucks Vs a couple of strykers + humvees / a mix of CROWs and no crows hummers

Though I agree that there should be only enough vehicles to provide 32-40 transport slots and NO more.

You want to add more assets to the infantry layer? This seems to be more of a 32/alt. layer loadout really.

[dtacs]

Irish;1307838']Then the pilots that are flying are not flying effectively. If the place is hot...don't fly in and expect to live.

They move so fast and so stealthily that somewhere that was fine can be hot in 10 seconds. The infantry can't constantly look around to make sure its fine without getting their heads blown off themselves.

The game is about Teamwork for a reason. If the squad needs a FOB than its there job to clear the area so its good for the helo to make an approach.

Rofl, with what, a HAT kit? Keep moving in the BRDM and you won't get hit.

Currently on that layer the best strategy is for the BRDM's to rush the US's next flag and kill all their assets when they get there.

[[uBp]Irish]

They move so fast and so stealthily that somewhere that was fine can be hot in 10 seconds. The infantry can't constantly look around to make sure its fine without getting their heads blown off themselves.

Yes they can. Its call situational awareness. You have someone in your squad with a LAT, and another with ammo. Hopefully when you were dropped off where ever you were you either got a crate or an ammo box from the Helo/Vehicle.

Rofl, with what, a HAT kit? Keep moving in the BRDM and you won't get hit.

Currently on that layer the best strategy is for the BRDM's to rush the US's next flag and kill all their assets when they get there.

Since when was the HAT the only thing that took out BRDM's? You have fellow Humvees? You have LAT Kits? Get two squads together to communicate. Don't lose your Humvee's so soon... overwhelm with 2x Humvees vs. 1 BRDM?

There's multiple strategies to combat a common threat. Get creative or apply teamwork. Its the answer to all situations.

[Rissien]

I never suggested the removal of transport trucks or helicopters... Besides, Skirmish maps are too cramped for normal 32 v 32 gameplay.



This is a load of ****... BRDMs have 4x Zoom, can easily both kill the gunner and driver, and has the same AP cannon that the BTR60 has. Humvees can't shoot out any of the BRDMs crew, has to rely on grungy ironsights, and has a .50 cal as opposed to an AP cannon.



You want to add more assets to the infantry layer? This seems to be more of a 32/alt. layer loadout really.

So you purposely left out the part where I mentioned the zoom advantage, otherwise they are evenly matched. Ive seen plenty of BDRM's killed by Humvees, even Land Rovers when Asad was still UK v MEC.

[Startrekern]

I actually agree with Snooggums, totally against changing anything about Insurgency 16.

16 mode in general is fine as it is, but could use some tweaks. Less BRDMs on Kashan.. more clowncars.

[dtacs]

Irish;1308796']Yes they can. Its call situational awareness. You have someone in your squad with a LAT, and another with ammo. Hopefully when you were dropped off where ever you were you either got a crate or an ammo box from the Helo/Vehicle.

There is an infantry squad in north north bunkers. There is 2 BRDM's on the hills to the west, covering both the front entrance and the stairs up the top. The Humvees roll in only to be destroyed by 14.5mm AP rounds which penetrate 30mm of steel at 100m, and 25mm at 500m.

Since when was the HAT the only thing that took out BRDM's? You have fellow Humvees? You have LAT Kits? Get two squads together to communicate. Don't lose your Humvee's so soon... overwhelm with 2x Humvees vs. 1 BRDM?

Yes, fellow Humvees which have little cover for the gunners, and an engine block which makes up the front part of the vehicle, also being the first place to get shot.

Contrary to popular belief the whole '2 over 1' thing doesn't always work. A decent LAV crew on Muttrah can smash two BTR-60's and by the end of the fight getting tracked damage at the most.

The BRDM's however, have an engine placed at the back of the vehicle which adds to its ability to avoid enemy fire., along with a cannon that has higher zoom levels than the Humvee's and a co-axial which tends to be more effective than the SAW.

There's multiple strategies to combat a common threat. Get creative or apply teamwork. Its the answer to all situations.

You imply that all strategies will succeed with the application of teamwork which alot of the time isn't the case, especially with the rewarding of lone-wolfing (see that thread while back on the subject)

Look, all I'm saying is currently the whole 'one side down but with more numbers or etc etc' side of play really isn't working. On Qwai however it seems to have ironed itself out with the Strykers being put to good use, even when the Chinese team can have more than half their numbers operating in APCs (18 crewmen)